Origin of non-christian religions

Argue for and against religions and philosophies which are not Christian

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wx47
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Origin of non-christian religions

Post #1

Post by wx47 »

Hi everyone,

I would like to ask question about origin of non-christian religions (this is my first post :-), I'm christian )
OK - so I've been thinking and idea came:
As a christian, I believe in God, his creation of universe . There are, however, other religions such as buddhism, taoism, muslim, etc.
They don't believe in God *AND* because God is one who created universe (and they don't believe in him), their gods doesn't exist. Because there is good (God) and then evil (absence of God) - and they don't believe in him, are they product of evil (I mean those religions) ?
Are they work of evil to draw attention not to God, but to something other ?
OK, and last question - (if answer to last question is yes) - are those people evil / bad becouse there are spreading their non-christian religion ? (maybe there don't mean to do bad thing - they believe that they are doing good, but unknowingly doing bad)

(DISCLAIMER: I do not want to harass or find excuse to disdain non-christian people, I just want to know answer to stated questions)

Many thanks

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Adurumus
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Post #131

Post by Adurumus »

happy forever wrote:I believe in Allah and His great miraculous words, how can I leave him and follow lies of a creature like me?!!!
The Quran doesn't need to mention the universe for there to be one, just as it doesn't need to mention giraffes for there to be long necked creatures in the world. I can gather facts, but it's easier to look at conclusions than everything looking up to them. If you want the points of data, though, I can offer them.

Heliocentrism is the idea that the Earth orbits the sun, instead of the sun orbiting the Earth. This article gives a good list of proofs, if you can take the time to browse through it. I have to hurry to an appointment, but if you want me to paraphrase it later I can.
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happy forever
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Post #132

Post by happy forever »

Adurumus wrote:
happy forever wrote:I believe in Allah and His great miraculous words, how can I leave him and follow lies of a creature like me?!!!
The Quran doesn't need to mention the universe for there to be one, just as it doesn't need to mention giraffes for there to be long necked creatures in the world. I can gather facts, but it's easier to look at conclusions than everything looking up to them. If you want the points of data, though, I can offer them.

Heliocentrism is the idea that the Earth orbits the sun, instead of the sun orbiting the Earth. This article gives a good list of proofs, if you can take the time to browse through it. I have to hurry to an appointment, but if you want me to paraphrase it later I can.
"Who created seven heavens as strata (i.e., layers, one above the other).In no way can you see in the creation of The All-Merciful any disparity; so return your gaze; (Literally: “your� beholding) do you see any rent?" [67:3]

This is the creation which we know in this organized way.

This is the heavens and the earth.

What is the meaning of universe?
What do you eant to prove?

Here is the Ayats again:

30. And have not the ones who disbelieved seen that the heavens and the earth were an integrated (mass), then We unseamed them, and of water We have made every living thing? Would they then not believe?
31. And We have made in the earth anchorages (i.e., the mountains) so that it should not reel with them, and We made therein ravines (Or; passageways) as ways, that possibly they would be guided.
32. And We have made the heaven as a roof well-preserved, and (yet still) from its signs they are veering away.
33. And He (is) The One Who created the night and the daytime, and the sun and the moon, each swimming in an orbit.
Here is the Aytas again, the first want explains that the heavens and the earth were one part then split. This means that the earth is a part of the seven heavens are another part.

The last Ayah says that the day and the night and the sun and the moon orbit in an orbit. What orbit? Around the earth?
It is not mentioned.

The earth is a different creation, it is not part of the layered heavens, it is created in and furnished in two days then the heavens were created in four days.

These are the complete facts with no doubt, this is the Quran the words of Allah The One True God.

happy forever
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Post #133

Post by happy forever »

happy forever wrote:
Adurumus wrote:
happy forever wrote:I believe in Allah and His great miraculous words, how can I leave him and follow lies of a creature like me?!!!
The Quran doesn't need to mention the universe for there to be one, just as it doesn't need to mention giraffes for there to be long necked creatures in the world. I can gather facts, but it's easier to look at conclusions than everything looking up to them. If you want the points of data, though, I can offer them.

Heliocentrism is the idea that the Earth orbits the sun, instead of the sun orbiting the Earth. This article gives a good list of proofs, if you can take the time to browse through it. I have to hurry to an appointment, but if you want me to paraphrase it later I can.
"Who created seven heavens as strata (i.e., layers, one above the other).In no way can you see in the creation of The All-Merciful any disparity; so return your gaze; (Literally: “your� beholding) do you see any rent?" [67:3]

This is the creation which we know in this organized way.

This is the heavens and the earth.

What is the meaning of universe?
What do you eant to prove?

Here is the Ayats again:

30. And have not the ones who disbelieved seen that the heavens and the earth were an integrated (mass), then We unseamed them, and of water We have made every living thing? Would they then not believe?
31. And We have made in the earth anchorages (i.e., the mountains) so that it should not reel with them, and We made therein ravines (Or; passageways) as ways, that possibly they would be guided.
32. And We have made the heaven as a roof well-preserved, and (yet still) from its signs they are veering away.
33. And He (is) The One Who created the night and the daytime, and the sun and the moon, each swimming in an orbit.

The first Ayah explains that the heavens and the earth were one part then split. This means that the earth is a part of the seven heavens are another part.

The last Ayah says that the day and the night and the sun and the moon orbit in an orbit. What orbit? Around the earth?
It is not mentioned.

The earth is a different creation, it is not part of the layered heavens, it is created in and furnished in two days then the heavens were created in four days.

These are the complete facts with no doubt, this is the Quran the words of Allah The One True God.

isa_muhammad
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Post #134

Post by isa_muhammad »

happy forever wrote: Salam my Muslim brother
Wa'alaikum salam :)
happy forever wrote: What is Jehovah and Hashem?
Hashem is an Arabic male name.

Allah "الله" is the name which Allah choose for Himself, its meaning is deep from earth till the seventh heaven. Who can know the whole meaning of Allah?
How do you mean .. 'chose for Himself' ?
I grant you that He decreed that the Qur'an would be in arabic, yet previous revelations were in other languages.
Both Jews and Muslims hold "God's special names' as sacred .. I would say that it was God that was sacred rather than the names .. yet in the rememberance of the names is a great reward.
happy forever wrote: May Allah grant you the best of this life and the best of afterlife.
Wa iyaak.

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Post #135

Post by happy forever »

isa_muhammad wrote:
happy forever wrote: Salam my Muslim brother
Wa'alaikum salam :)
happy forever wrote: What is Jehovah and Hashem?
Hashem is an Arabic male name.

Allah "الله" is the name which Allah choose for Himself, its meaning is deep from earth till the seventh heaven. Who can know the whole meaning of Allah?
How do you mean .. 'chose for Himself' ?
I grant you that He decreed that the Qur'an would be in arabic, yet previous revelations were in other languages.
Both Jews and Muslims hold "God's special names' as sacred .. I would say that it was God that was sacred rather than the names .. yet in the rememberance of the names is a great reward.
happy forever wrote: May Allah grant you the best of this life and the best of afterlife.
Wa iyaak.
Do you speak Arabic?

"Allah" is a word for all languages, it is not confined to Arabic and untranslateable.

I write it again:

"No god but Allah" "La Ilah Ila Allah".

Allah doesn't only mean god, all the names of Allah the 99 names and the names which we don't know are included in that name "Allah".

Ilah equals god and means that which thought to deserve to be worshipped sp you can call anything a god but "Allah" is the name of Allah.

What is Jehovah and Hashem?

How do you know that the previous books of Allah doesn't have the word "Allah"?
How do you know that the previous messengers and prophets didn't know the word Allah?

If you read Quran, will know that the first message of all messengers is:

"La Ilah Ila Allah". If Jehovah and hashem (human name) and god means Ilah, how can they say "La Ilah Ila Allah"?

isa_muhammad
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Post #136

Post by isa_muhammad »

happy forever wrote: "No god but Allah"..
:D It's to do with arabic grammar, man!

As you say,
illah ---> a god
Allah --> the God

There IS only One God, irrespective of name.

God created the Universe, and is the same God as worshipped by Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be with them)

Allah is not an English word .. although today, most people are familiar with 'Allah' .. 'Allah' is not a personal god .. He created EVERYBODY, irrespective of religion!

Ma'asalam

happy forever
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Post #137

Post by happy forever »

isa_muhammad wrote:
happy forever wrote: "No god but Allah"..
:D It's to do with arabic grammar, man!

As you say,
illah ---> a god
Allah --> the God

There IS only One God, irrespective of name.

God created the Universe, and is the same God as worshipped by Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be with them)

Allah is not an English word .. although today, most people are familiar with 'Allah' .. 'Allah' is not a personal god .. He created EVERYBODY, irrespective of religion!

Ma'asalam
Read this:
Allah says":"And in no way did We do them an injustice, but they did themselves (an) injustice. So in no way did (their) gods that they invoked apart from Allah avail them in anything as soon as the Command of your Lord came. And in no way did they increase them (in anything) other than in complete detriment."
[11:101]

The word god can be used to anything, Hindus call the cow a god, idolators call idols gods, Christians call Jesus a god.

But Allah is The One True God.

I know that in English, names are meaningless but this doesn't exist in Arabic.
"Allah" is not just a name, its meaning is deep from here till the seventh heaven.

"Allah" is not Al Ilah (the god).
"Allah" is one word means The One True God, is there one word in English refers to these four words?

Allah includes these meanings:
The One God, The All Merciful, The Ever Merciful, The King, The Holy, The peace,,,,
the all known names (descriptions) of Allah and the unknown ones.

"Allah" is Allah in all languages and it is untranslateable.

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Adurumus
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Post #138

Post by Adurumus »

I've been fairly busy, sorry. Readdressing this point:
I believe in Allah and His great miraculous words, how can I leave him and follow lies of a creature like me?!!!
I want to set a goal before I start ranting off with unrelated facts and what not. Do you believe the Sun and Universe revolves around the Earth because it says so in the Qur'an? Would you believe that the Earth instead revolves around the Sun if the Qur'an said so, or if the Qur'an could be proven to have absolutely nothing to say on the issue? Once you've decided on your concrete stance, then I'll begin.

As a side note, on the Allah issue, most people I've heard say a phrase like this: "Muslims worship Allah, Christians worship Jesus, etc." It annoys me to hear when people say "Worship the one and only God", but that also happens. When people that are not of Muslim upbringing, or familiar with Muslim lore or grammar in their society, it's easy to say "Allah" only in reference to Muslims.
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happy forever
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Post #139

Post by happy forever »

Adurumus wrote:I've been fairly busy, sorry. Readdressing this point:
I believe in Allah and His great miraculous words, how can I leave him and follow lies of a creature like me?!!!
I want to set a goal before I start ranting off with unrelated facts and what not. Do you believe the Sun and Universe revolves around the Earth because it says so in the Qur'an? Would you believe that the Earth instead revolves around the Sun if the Qur'an said so, or if the Qur'an could be proven to have absolutely nothing to say on the issue? Once you've decided on your concrete stance, then I'll begin.

As a side note, on the Allah issue, most people I've heard say a phrase like this: "Muslims worship Allah, Christians worship Jesus, etc." It annoys me to hear when people say "Worship the one and only God", but that also happens. When people that are not of Muslim upbringing, or familiar with Muslim lore or grammar in their society, it's easy to say "Allah" only in reference to Muslims.
Hello brother,

In my lat reply to you I stressed that Allah says that the sun (and the moon) revolves in an orbit but what orbit?
The orbit s not defined but I tried to analyse myself after mentioning one of the signs of the Day of The Hour at which the sun will east from the west.

This could mean that the sun revolves around the earth.

The Quran says nothing, Quran is a book, Allah is Who says.
Allah didn't say that the sun and the universe revolve around the earth but Allah says that the heavens and the earth were one part then split and He created the earth and all what is in it in two days while the heavens were still smoke then Allah created the heavens seven heavens in four days.

You can't say if quran say ...... there is no if.

I believe in every letter of The Munificent Quran as it is the words of Allah, Whom I can believe more than my Lord?!!

Yes, we Muslims worship Allah The One True God.

Chrisitans worship their human god Jesus.

If you worship the One True God, then you are a Muslim.

May Allah guide you to His straight path.

All the best

Happy Forever

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Adurumus
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Post #140

Post by Adurumus »

A very nice response, thank you. Sorry if I'm not very sensitive, yours is a culture unfamiliar to me. My points will be taken from this web page. It is the official web site of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. Red quotes are from the Qur'an (translated in to English), blue quotes are from the website.

One argument I've heard from many Christians is that Christianity uniquely has some principles, therefore it's more correct. The same can be said of Islam, however, as words in the Qur'an have correctly stated some of the natures of our universe. The fact that it's alluded to in the Qur'an means that it's true, at least in the Muslim faith, and therefore acceptable.
And the heaven We built with Our own powers (aydin) and indeed We go on expanding it (musi'un).1
Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were a closed-up mass (ratqan), then We clove them asunder (fataqna)? And We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?2
The first refers to the fact that the universe is ever expanding, and the second both talks about the big bang and black holes. Therefore, you should accept these as truths if it must be stated in the Qur'an to happen.

Now to the good part: Earth's movement.
The mountains that you see, you think they are stationary while they are constantly floating like the floating of clouds. Such is the work of Allah Who made everything firm and strong...8
If the mountains are declared to be in constant motion, then the only logical inference to be drawn from this would be that the earth is also rotating along with them.
What this means is that they're rotating. Things above appear to move, things below don't. Everything is in a constant state of some sort of motion. Not to mention the phrase "orbit":
... everything is gliding along smoothly in its orbit.12
This all-embracing statement covers the entire universe, our solar system being no exception. In addition to this, there are many other verses which mention the elliptical movement of all the heavenly bodies.
One bit that you mentioned is that the Sun moves. This verse, right?
And the sun is constantly moving in the direction of its ultimate abode of rest. This is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing.
But the moon, too, must move.
If it were only the sun which was moving in a fixed direction, the verse which follows this statement would not have proclaimed that the sun and the moon strictly maintain their mutual distance; they will never be able to gain or move away from each other, an unchangeable destiny till their appointed time
And since the moon isn't moving away from the Earth (or at least, not too far away yet), the Earth has to move as well. I haven't shown that the Earth revolves around the Sun yet, but can you see that it states the the Earth moves, and even rotates?
[center]Let me light the way[/center]

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