Evolution

[keithprosser3]

Given the nature of reproduction and of natural selection isn't evolution inescapable?
How can evolution not happen?

[Sonofason]

[Replying to post 137 by Sonofason]

Which question did I not answer?

You gave a response to all of the questions I asked, but you didn't answer any of them. You circumvented my questions, and responded with gibberish.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 139 by Sonofason]

why is it gibberish perhaps I could expound upon one and make them clearer, choose the one that made the least sense

[Star]

Answer the questions. I have already given support for my claim of understanding biological evolution. I even provided a sufficient definition for it. Now answer the questions I asked. If you don't, we are at an impasse, and all your further comments will in fact be ignored.

Animals domesticated by artificial selection, such as the various dog breeds, is one example. No god was necessary to make a poodle.

http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpag ... eeding-434

Another example is bacteria evolving antibiotic resistance by natural selection.

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Saf ... 134455.htm

[Sonofason]

[Replying to post 139 by Sonofason]

why is it gibberish perhaps I could expound upon one and make them clearer, choose the one that made the least sense

Start here:


Sonofason wrote:

How is it that the universe is accelerating in it's expansion?

You answered:

This is astro-physics not evolution try looking up dark matter.

If every time you asked for evidence that God existed, I were to say read the Bible. I think you would accuse me of diverting the question.

I think your answer diverts the question. So, answer the question. Don't refer me to a book of hearsay, or to someone else. Answer the question.

[Sonofason]

Answer the questions. I have already given support for my claim of understanding biological evolution. I even provided a sufficient definition for it. Now answer the questions I asked. If you don't, we are at an impasse, and all your further comments will in fact be ignored.

Animals domesticated by artificial selection, such as the various dog breeds, is one example. No god was necessary to make a poodle.

http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpag ... eeding-434

Another example is bacteria evolving antibiotic resistance by natural selection.

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Saf ... 134455.htm

Can you please prove that an act of God, whether prior or present is not responsible for the human capability of causing the domestication of animals?

Can you please now provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the development of poodles?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the evolution of bacteria by natural selection?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the existence of the process we call natural selection?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 142 by Sonofason]

Dark matter is a type of matter hypothesized in astronomy and cosmology to account for a large part of the total mass in the universe. Dark matter cannot be seen directly with telescopes; evidently it neither emits nor absorbs light or other electromagnetic radiation at any significant level.[1] Instead, its existence and properties are inferred from its gravitational effects on visible matter, radiation, and the large-scale structure of the universe

It is this particular set of matter that has been hypothesized to be the cause of the accelerated expansion in our universe. There is a rather complicated field of astro-physics dedicated to it an explanation of which would be off topic. You also asked for a science based answer so your non sequitur about my reaction to the bible as evidence for god is irrelevant.

Let me flip the script so you can understand the false comparison.

What is the theological evidence for god?

The bible is perfectly acceptable in this line of questioning.

perhaps to get a more detailed explanation of why dark matter accelerates universe expansion we could create a separate topic so as not to derail this thread ?

[Sonofason]

[Replying to post 142 by Sonofason]

Dark matter is a type of matter hypothesized in astronomy and cosmology to account for a large part of the total mass in the universe. Dark matter cannot be seen directly with telescopes; evidently it neither emits nor absorbs light or other electromagnetic radiation at any significant level.[1] Instead, its existence and properties are inferred from its gravitational effects on visible matter, radiation, and the large-scale structure of the universe

It is this particular set of matter that has been hypothesized to be the cause of the accelerated expansion in our universe. There is a rather complicated field of astro-physics dedicated to it an explanation of which would be off topic. You also asked for a science based answer so your non sequitur about my reaction to the bible as evidence for god is irrelevant.

Let me flip the script so you can understand the false comparison.

What is the theological evidence for god?

The bible is perfectly acceptable in this line of questioning.

perhaps to get a more detailed explanation of why dark matter accelerates universe expansion we could create a separate topic so as not to derail this thread ?

Very well, I have no reasonable objection to the existence of the phenomena called evolution.

[Star]

Can you please prove that an act of God, whether prior or present is not responsible for the human capability of causing the domestication of animals?

Can you please now provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the development of poodles?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the evolution of bacteria by natural selection?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the existence of the process we call natural selection?

Can you please prove that an act of Allah, whether prior or present is not responsible for the human capability of causing the domestication of animals?

Can you please now provide evidence that an act of Shiva is not responsible for the development of poodles?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of leprechauns is not responsible for the evolution of bacteria by natural selection?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of fairy god mothers is not responsible for the existence of the process we call natural selection?

We can play this silly game of shifting the burden and negative proof all day, but I'd rather not.

[czyz]

Sonofason wrote...

Can you please prove that an act of God, whether prior or present is not responsible for the human capability of causing the domestication of animals?

Can you please now provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the development of poodles?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the evolution of bacteria by natural selection?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the existence of the process we call natural selection?

Can you provide evidence an act of god is the cause of these things?

[Sonofason]

Can you please prove that an act of God, whether prior or present is not responsible for the human capability of causing the domestication of animals?

Can you please now provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the development of poodles?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the evolution of bacteria by natural selection?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the existence of the process we call natural selection?

Can you please prove that an act of Allah, whether prior or present is not responsible for the human capability of causing the domestication of animals?

Can you please now provide evidence that an act of Shiva is not responsible for the development of poodles?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of leprechauns is not responsible for the evolution of bacteria by natural selection?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of fairy god mothers is not responsible for the existence of the process we call natural selection?

We can play this silly game of shifting the burden and negative proof all day, but I'd rather not.

So I gather the answer is no. You can't prove that God is not necessary for evolution to take place. That's what I expected.

Let me remind you where this started.

Aetixintro had written:

Evolution should be accepted straight in God being the Grand Architect, the Intelligent Designer. Evolution is by God's hand to humanity.

Clownboat wrote:

Your scenario seems possible (a god being behind it).
It is also un-needed (evolution can happen without a god behind it).

I responded:

I would love to see you prove that God is unnecessary for evolution to take place. First, I believe you must prove that there is no God. And of course I know you can't do that. It is impossible to disprove the existence of that which is existent. You can't even disprove the existence of that which is non-existent.

The fact is, if God exists, it is likely that He is responsible for evolutionary processes.

If God does not exist, it would be reasonable to assume that God is not necessary for evolution to take place.

Clownboat admitted the possibility of God being responsible for evolution.
When he said, "It is also un-needed (evolution can happen without a god behind it)." I believe he was simply suggesting the possibility that a God might not exist, in which case evolution would not be dependent on the existence of God.

In essence, Clownboat was stating that he doesn't know if God is necessary for evolution to take place. And neither do you. And neither do I.

I personally have no objection to studying evolution outside a context of whether or not God exists. We certainly can observe evolution without God. But we cannot make such assumptions that a God is not necessary for evolution to take place.