Evolution

[keithprosser3]

Given the nature of reproduction and of natural selection isn't evolution inescapable?
How can evolution not happen?

[keithprosser3]

The evidence is that evolution follows as a logical consequence of descent with modification and natural selection - it follows just a surely 1+1=2.
That offspring resemble but are not identical to their parents is surely familiar to SoS from his own experience. That not all critters survive to breed likewise.

What extra proof is it reasonable to ask for? Sufficient evidence has been presented. One can take a horse to water, but one cannot make it drink, especially if the horse is as stubborn as a mule!

[Sonofason]

What I understand is that the definition I gave is quite sufficient for the purposes of our discussion. I believe that adding something to the definition I provided serves no purpose of good intent. I think your stalling.

Now prove that God is not necessary for evolution to take place.

Uh. No.. it's not.

For you to understand my explanation, you have to understand the scientific definition.. You obviously are rejecting what science says out of hand.

It does show your weakness in understanding what biological evolution even IS, and until we can get past the lack of knowledge on your part, we can't go anyplace.

Because of the fact you think your definition is 'sufficient, that shows your knowledge of biology and science is insufficient. We have to build things up slowly.

Do you know what an allele is, without resorting to looking it up on google?? We will proceed slowly.

Uh yeah, it is.
I did not reject the definition you provided. You rejected the one I provided.

I have no weaknesses of understanding whatsoever. I know all about biological evolution.

Now for the third time, show your evidence that God is not necessary for evolution to take place. I'm getting tired of you stalling. Just provide the evidence so I can move along to more interesting conversation.

The evidence is clear and irrefutable in every scientific writing about biological evolution, ie god is not once given credit for anything and we are discussing biological evolution.

The fact that scientists do not credit God for evolution, or anything for that matter, says absolutely nothing toward whether or not God is a requirement for existence.

The fact is, scientists need not invoke a God to make observations about existence. They simply recognize that something exists, and when the end of their understanding is at hand, they simply write off as an explanation that, well, this is just the nature of it. How is it that the universe is accelerating in it's expansion? How is it that consciousness exists? Does it exist? Why are some things alive, while other things do not have life? Why do the laws of existence exist? Why does a Big Bang occur? Why is there existence?

You keep observing. I'll keep understanding.

[Sonofason]

The evidence is that evolution follows as a logical consequence of descent with modification and natural selection - it follows just a surely 1+1=2.
That offspring resemble but are not identical to their parents is surely familiar to SoS from his own experience. That not all critters survive to breed likewise.

What extra proof is it reasonable to ask for? Sufficient evidence has been presented. One can take a horse to water, but one cannot make it drink, especially if the horse is as stubborn as a mule!

I am not suggesting that evolution doesn't exist. I am asking for evidence that a God is not necessary for evolution to exist. I am not asking to see your observations. I am asking for your explanation for why there is something to observe.

[keithprosser3]

You keep observing. I'll keep understanding.

Pithy, but not I'm not convinced you do understand.

[Sonofason]

You keep observing. I'll keep understanding.

Pithy, but not I'm not convinced you do understand.

Be that as it may, you may never be convinced. Interestingly, you remain in a state of want, to be convinced. I am at peace, and lack no convincing. I am convinced.

[Goat]

The fact that scientists do not credit God for evolution, or anything for that matter, says absolutely nothing toward whether or not God is a requirement for existence.

The fact is, scientists need not invoke a God to make observations about existence. They simply recognize that something exists, and when the end of their understanding is at hand, they simply write off as an explanation that, well, this is just the nature of it. How is it that the universe is accelerating in it's expansion? How is it that consciousness exists? Does it exist? Why are some things alive, while other things do not have life? Why do the laws of existence exist? Why does a Big Bang occur? Why is there existence?

You keep observing. I'll keep understanding.

And, those are very interesting questions.. however,they have nothing what so ever to do with evolution.

Please provide evidence of your understanding of evolution. Show that you do indeed have an understanding... or withdraw your claim.

[Sonofason]

The fact that scientists do not credit God for evolution, or anything for that matter, says absolutely nothing toward whether or not God is a requirement for existence.

The fact is, scientists need not invoke a God to make observations about existence. They simply recognize that something exists, and when the end of their understanding is at hand, they simply write off as an explanation that, well, this is just the nature of it. How is it that the universe is accelerating in it's expansion? How is it that consciousness exists? Does it exist? Why are some things alive, while other things do not have life? Why do the laws of existence exist? Why does a Big Bang occur? Why is there existence?

You keep observing. I'll keep understanding.

And, those are very interesting questions.. however,they have nothing what so ever to do with evolution.

Please provide evidence of your understanding of evolution. Show that you do indeed have an understanding... or withdraw your claim.

Answer the questions. I have already given support for my claim of understanding biological evolution. I even provided a sufficient definition for it. Now answer the questions I asked. If you don't, we are at an impasse, and all your further comments will in fact be ignored.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 135 by Sonofason]

How is it that the universe is accelerating in it's expansion?

This is astro-physics not evolution try looking up dark matter.

How is it that consciousness exists? Does it exist?

complex system of a nervous system reacting to stimuli, This probably took millions of years to form. Computers are gaining some attributes of consciousness and will continue to do so as they become more complex. so really it's not so complicated or special.

Why are some things alive, while other things do not have life?

See biochemistry again not really evolution

Why do the laws of existence exist?

physics and the laws exist because they are descriptors of attributes in our universe. They exist because the universe exists, if we lived in another universe or this universe didn't exist; they would be different or none at all

Why does a Big Bang occur?

read a universe from nothing

Why is there existence?

because there is does there need to be a reason?

[Sonofason]

[Replying to post 135 by Sonofason]

How is it that the universe is accelerating in it's expansion?

This is astro-physics not evolution try looking up dark matter.

How is it that consciousness exists? Does it exist?

complex system of a nervous system reacting to stimuli, This probably took millions of years to form. Computers are gaining some attributes of consciousness and will continue to do so as they become more complex. so really it's not so complicated or special.

Why are some things alive, while other things do not have life?

See biochemistry again not really evolution

Why do the laws of existence exist?

physics and the laws exist because they are descriptors of attributes in our universe. They exist because the universe exists, if we lived in another universe or this universe didn't exist; they would be different or none at all

Why does a Big Bang occur?

read a universe from nothing

Why is there existence?

because there is does there need to be a reason?

I see you have failed to answer all of my questions, as suspected.
Therefore, I am quite confident that you cannot show that God does not exist. And for this reason, I am certain that you cannot show that a God is not necessary for evolution to take place.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 137 by Sonofason]

Which question did I not answer?