Are there any new arguments for God?

[daedalus 2.0]

It seems all the arguments for God have been offered and answered. There are also arguments against God, which Theists have tried to answer. The atheists are clearly winning in the area of logic, reason and rationality.

I haven't seen a new argument for God in years and would love for someone to offer one.

[faith]

I think perhaps our exchange on this subject is over, faith. I'm sure others will be more than happy to engage you.

And please could you edit your post containing the image link? It's making the page all wrong.

Truth hurts doesn't it. The page shows that the 16% of non-religionist included atheists. But it also shows it was a study from 2005 and if people follow it can find out what it was portraying.

[bernee51]

There are a few thousand followers of Odin/Asatru.

http://www.runestone.org/
http://asatru.org/

And it is a valid religion - as valid as any other, upheld in court.


Certainly, faith, you shouldn't use number of people to test if something is true or not - by that "logic" you would have ruled out Xinanity in the beginning.

When did you ever rule Christianity out fully.

You misunderstand the point. Most people in the world aren't Christian, so if you intend to keep flogging the dead horse of 'lots of people=correct', you need to renounce your faith, because only 33% of the world's population claims to be Christian, while 67% does not.

If you look again at 33% and view that as to the other 67% being split between all other denominations and beliefs which include atheism. You see Christianity is the largest faith in the whole world. So when viewing it as it should be viewed atheists do not outway religious believers in the world. So perhaps the atheists including yourself should give up the unbelief and follow the most popular faith Christianity, which would be the correct way to go by your reasoning.

The dead horse is real the atheism because it had far less members than Christianity and other faiths combined. Even Christianity stands to have more members alone than atheism. Why did you think your argument carried any weight in the debate? This makes atheism look as if it is just a game like which football team should we support.

Love Faith.xx

I nearly fell of my chair laughing when I read this post. Gobsmacked I was.

You really just don't get it do you?

As you can see, you are the one having difficulty reading other peoples posts, not me.

I do not 'see' this at all.

You still have no idea as to why your post was so hilarious do you? Here's a clue - take what you wrote in context of the discussion thus far and you will 'see' how ludicrous it is.

Or perhaps you won't....

[McCulloch]

List your premises and the reasoning that leads you to conclude that there is a God. I really would like to understand it.

I have ad nauseum.

Would you please indulge me? Identify just one such example. Either link to it, or tell me the posting number in which debate or repost. You see, I have been blinded by formal training in what the academics call logic and fail to recognize it in any of your posts. If you would just point me to one example of yours, I might be greatly enlightened.

Ho hum...No, I wont; indulge you again.

I thought not. I question your use of the word again. Where and when have you listed your premises and the reasoning that leads you to conclude that there is a God? I have reviewed your posts using the search feature and cannot identify one post that does.

You keep asking..I keep asserting...then you ignore it and then ask again.

Please, a link to one such example. When have I ignored the answer to this question? You have insulted my credibility as a debater.

Not to forget to mention the many questions I ask that are ignored by you.

Apparently I am guilty of ignoring the evidence, reasoning and questions posted by 2Bits:

It would be illogical for you to pray to a God that you do not believe is there. It would be illogical for me to not pray to a God that I know is there.

This answer begs the question, how do you know that the god is there?

I made the claim that God is logical "to me" and then I explained the "to me." But No I do not withdraw it in context.

Here 2Bits exposes his own unique difference of opinion regarding exactly what logic means. Logic to everyone else who has studied logic, is an objective way to determine the truth value of conclusions given that you have a set of true premises. 2Bits private version of logic is something subjective.

So you are denying the definition you submitted? Is this why you started a new thread on a totally different and unrelated forum?

These questions are not relevant to the question at hand and I believe addressed in the thread.

What, pray tell, is a well established principle of logic? The one that is most popular? Is that how logic is decided for you? By the most votes?

I believe that I have addressed these questions as well.

You stiill blindly refuse to see the word spirit. S-P-R-I-T. Are you reading that yet????

Is this the point that you say that I am ignoring? I am not intending to ignore this issue. But I challenge the validity of it. You say that you believe in the existence of god because of spirit. That just moves the goalposts. I don't know what spirit is. It would be like me saying that I believe in gravity because of quarks, without defining what quarks are or how they relate.

Would reading it mess with your self imposed idea of logic wouldn't it?

My idea of logic is not self-imposed. It is the definition used by those who study it. It would not be valid for me to state a mathematical theorem about prime numbers while using my own private definition of the word prime. Likewise, it is not valid for you to make statements about logic while using your own private definition of the word logic.

Now logic is a philosophy? Do you have a standard defintion? And you are also continually swinging the pendulum on this "belief" vs "is" issue. Mine was "is" but you cannot get past "belief."

If you wish to study logic at most institutes of higher learning you will find it in either the mathematics or philosophy faculties. I still cannot differentiate between the idea that you believe something to be true and you know that it is true. Maybe I am particularly thick.

I will answer more in depth l8ter as I gotta go, but God will never be logical to you because of the subjective restrictions or rules or criteria or whatever you call it, you have placed on what you call logic. Spirit is not because you have not experienced spirit, therefore God is not. That is your logic. I have experience spirit, God passed from "belief" to "is."

Perhaps I have missed the promised answer more in depth. Could someone please post a link to it? This is the classic case of proof by personal experience. 2Bits has experienced something that convinced him that God exists, therefore God exists.

But now, having cleared that up: God is and He is logical. 1)I used to not believe in God, 2) I then believed in God, 3)I then experienced the Holy Spirit, 4) and now I know God is and it would be illogical for me to say God does not exist.

This is not logic. This is a list of numbered statements and a restatement of the proof by personal experience.

3 was a personal experience and I cannot make a case for how anyone else experiences it. But, they have, and I presume the laws [...] logic, are that it is mass delusion generation after generation after generation, or the other way to explain it is to deny that it can be because if you have not experienced spirit, then no one else can.

2Bits again shows his ignorance of logic. Logic in no way rules out either a mass multigenerational delusion nor the truth of an individual experience.

False premise on top of false premise will not add up though. It will add up to something, but the answer could be just about anything.

Agreed. Please provide a set of true premises and valid logic that leads to the conclusion that God exists.

I have reviewed 2Bits' posts in this thread and the Born Again thread to see if there was any actual logic presented. I found none. Perhaps someone could point me to a specific post with his logical arguments please.

And then re-read it and see where I have stated repeatedly that anything past "spirit" is illogical to you based on your established criteria for what is logical.

Agreed, spirit and God have just about the same evidential support. None.

Your logic, it appears, says that if you have not experienced it than it cannot be so.

I have not made that statement. There are many things which I have not experienced yet believe to exist based on evidence.

I know that fairies exist because hypertranstemporal quantum guons. That's not logic either.

On top of all the reasons it isn't, the first and foremost reason is that you said it isn't. Affirming and unnaffirming an assertion in the same sentence does not make much sense, except maybe in comedy.

The example apparently went over 2Bits head. Examine the logical structure of these two statements:

1. God exists because of Spirit.
2. Fairies exist because of hypertranstemporal quantum guons.

Without proving spirit or hypertranstemporal quantum guons, neither of these statements prove anything.

The Holy Spirit, being a new experience, can affirm itself through its characteristics. It does not contradict its defintion (Biblically), and works as its own empowerment. It is a creative force, a healing force, and many other things. It is, in essence, the power of God on earth, since God is spirit. Since the Holy Spirit is not a physical taste I cannot relate it to your analogy. The evidence of the spirit is its fruit.

No logic presented here. Just unsupported assertions.

Not an unusual assertion, but probably not thought out very well, no. Relating an experience unlike any other is not an easy task to verbalize. And I am not aware of any "something like" experience, though I have heard some people attempt to relate it in a "something like" experience. Regardless, My experience itself does not make the case for you. The Holy Spirit sems to be the issue. It is appearing to me that since you think the Bible is just stories, that no on could experience the Spirit, accept to "believe" they did and you can only see it as "some kind of profound experience" , but having never experienced Holy Spirit you are convinced that it has to be something else. When it first happpened, according to Biblical record, I believe that people who saw it, but did not experience it likened it to "being drunk" as they observed it. That was the best analogy they could give. It's nothing like being drunk, but the analogy suggests to me they saw it as a delusion of some kind.

This is essentially an admission that belief is not logical, but simply the result of personal experience.

It's begging the question because of that void you have with "Spirit" and your predetermined conclusion: 1)God does not exist. 2) There can be no Holy Spirit, 3) Any experience has to be an assumption (because 1) I do not understand it and 2)because God cannot exist) 4) Since 1 is true there is no way to logically think further. End of reason. Subjective Logic has kicked in and saved you from thinking any further than that. You just call it objective logic.

2Bits misrepresents my position. I do not start with God does not exist. I have asked for objective evidence supporting the assertion that God exists.

Then we would be better to call it the argument from personal experience.

We can if the subject is "me" and this whole issue is just "me." There are others who have had experienced the same.

Well, it is still the argument from personal experience. A large number of people claim to have experienced the Holy Spirit, therefore God exists.

The way you write it does not sound right, but I presume you did not intend it to. I will address the others later, lets stick with these three.

I think that I may have missed where these were addressed later. Could someone please provide a link?

If you start with true premises and valid logic you cannot produce absurdities.

"If" You base it all on that IF??? But for the record, what is the "IF" you refer to?

Here I have to wonder at 2Bits ability to read. The if condition is that you start with true premises and that you use valid logic. I still cannot identify any posting where 2Bits has presented true premises and valid logic that leads to the conclusion that God exists.

If there are any other relevant questions you have posed that I have neglected to answer, please post a link or specify what they are. If you have answered the question about a set of true premises combined with valid logic that proves the existence of God I still have not found it. Please, if it is not too much trouble, just provide a single link to such a post. If the question has been answered multiple times, a link to just one of those occurrences would be sufficient. Before accusing me of ignoring posts and not answering questions again, please be specific with regard to which questions (or at least a sampling) and which answers (or at least a sampling) you believe that I have inappropriately ignored.

[Fallibleone]

I think perhaps our exchange on this subject is over, faith. I'm sure others will be more than happy to engage you.

And please could you edit your post containing the image link? It's making the page all wrong.

Truth hurts doesn't it. The page shows that the 16% of non-religionist included atheists. But it also shows it was a study from 2005 and if people follow it can find out what it was portraying.

Wow, was that ever a frustrating week or so - just as I was replying to this gem the forum crashed and I haven't been able to get back since.

Truth does not hurt. Unfortunately for you, your post does not contain one iota of it. Our excahnge was over because I became convinced that I was in fact conversing with either a brick wall or a someone who could not read properly.

Ahhhhhh. That's better.

[McCulloch]

[image]http://64.233.169.104/search ?sourceid=navclient &hl=en-GB &ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBF_en-GBGB265GB279 &q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adherents.com%2FReligions_By_Adherents.html[/image]

I think that faith was trying to show
from Major Religions of the World
Ranked by Number of Adherents

1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
2. Islam: 1.5 billion
3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism: 900 million
5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
6. Buddhism: 376 million
7. primal-indigenous: 300 million
8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
9. Sikhism: 23 million
10. Juche: 19 million
11. Spiritism: 15 million
12. Judaism: 14 million
13. Baha'i: 7 million
14. Jainism: 4.2 million
15. Shinto: 4 million
16. Cao Dai: 4 million
17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
18. Tenrikyo: 2 million
19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
22. Scientology: 500 thousand

Truth hurts doesn't it. The page shows that the 16% of non-religionist included atheists. But it also shows it was a study from 2005 and if people follow it can find out what it was portraying.

I fail to see the relevance. Truth is not a popularity contest. Even Jesus said something about the road being narrow.

The truth portrayed by these data¹ is that no single category has a majority and that the third largest category is essentially a miscellaneous grouping ranging from "I don't know", "I don't care" to utter rejection of religion.



¹ Notice the example of blatant grammatical pedanticalness. Data is originally a plural word (the singular is datum), so is treated as a plural.

[daedalus 2.0]

There are a few thousand followers of Odin/Asatru.

http://www.runestone.org/
http://asatru.org/

And it is a valid religion - as valid as any other, upheld in court.


Certainly, faith, you shouldn't use number of people to test if something is true or not - by that "logic" you would have ruled out Xinanity in the beginning.

When did you ever rule Christianity out fully.

You misunderstand the point. Most people in the world aren't Christian, so if you intend to keep flogging the dead horse of 'lots of people=correct', you need to renounce your faith, because only 33% of the world's population claims to be Christian, while 67% does not.

If you look again at 33% and view that as to the other 67% being split between all other denominations and beliefs which include atheism. You see Christianity is the largest faith in the whole world. So when viewing it as it should be viewed atheists do not outway religious believers in the world. So perhaps the atheists including yourself should give up the unbelief and follow the most popular faith Christianity, which would be the correct way to go by your reasoning.

The dead horse is real the atheism because it had far less members than Christianity and other faiths combined. Even Christianity stands to have more members alone than atheism. Why did you think your argument carried any weight in the debate? This makes atheism look as if it is just a game like which football team should we support.

Love Faith.xx

I nearly fell of my chair laughing when I read this post. Gobsmacked I was.

You really just don't get it do you?

As you can see, you are the one having difficulty reading other peoples posts, not me.

I do not 'see' this at all.

You still have no idea as to why your post was so hilarious do you? Here's a clue - take what you wrote in context of the discussion thus far and you will 'see' how ludicrous it is.

Or perhaps you won't....

I would add:

Most scientists are Atheist.
Most people agree that evolution happens, and NOT the story of Creation.
Most people believe that Jesus was NOT the son of a god.
Most people live on LESS than a dollar a day
Most people suffer in some way
Most people die as a Non-Xian
Most people feel women are 2nd rate citizens
Most Xians aren't "good Xians" by their own assessment
Most Mexicans are Xian (than any other country: 99%) - is that what we should strive for? (And, lets face it Mexico, is generally corrupt and poor).
Most of American income is paid in taxes
Most Americans live below 50% of the average GLOBAL income.
Most People with Diabetes Do Not Meet Treatment Goals
Most people with asthma in U.S. don't get a flu shot
Most People Cannot Recognize Heart Attack Symptoms
Most people don't abuse their children


Most people.... do a lot of different things. Some good, some bad.

Faith, convince us that YOUR idea is good. In your own words, and using real-life examples and statistics (since "most" appeals to you).

[faith]

There are a few thousand followers of Odin/Asatru.

http://www.runestone.org/
http://asatru.org/

And it is a valid religion - as valid as any other, upheld in court.


Certainly, faith, you shouldn't use number of people to test if something is true or not - by that "logic" you would have ruled out Xinanity in the beginning.

When did you ever rule Christianity out fully.

You misunderstand the point. Most people in the world aren't Christian, so if you intend to keep flogging the dead horse of 'lots of people=correct', you need to renounce your faith, because only 33% of the world's population claims to be Christian, while 67% does not.

If you look again at 33% and view that as to the other 67% being split between all other denominations and beliefs which include atheism. You see Christianity is the largest faith in the whole world. So when viewing it as it should be viewed atheists do not outway religious believers in the world. So perhaps the atheists including yourself should give up the unbelief and follow the most popular faith Christianity, which would be the correct way to go by your reasoning.

The dead horse is real the atheism because it had far less members than Christianity and other faiths combined. Even Christianity stands to have more members alone than atheism. Why did you think your argument carried any weight in the debate? This makes atheism look as if it is just a game like which football team should we support.

Love Faith.xx

I nearly fell of my chair laughing when I read this post. Gobsmacked I was.

You really just don't get it do you?

As you can see, you are the one having difficulty reading other peoples posts, not me.

I do not 'see' this at all.

You still have no idea as to why your post was so hilarious do you? Here's a clue - take what you wrote in context of the discussion thus far and you will 'see' how ludicrous it is.

Or perhaps you won't....

I would add:

Most scientists are Atheist.
Most people agree that evolution happens, and NOT the story of Creation.
Most people believe that Jesus was NOT the son of a god.
Most people live on LESS than a dollar a day
Most people suffer in some way
Most people die as a Non-Xian
Most people feel women are 2nd rate citizens
Most Xians aren't "good Xians" by their own assessment
Most Mexicans are Xian (than any other country: 99%) - is that what we should strive for? (And, lets face it Mexico, is generally corrupt and poor).
Most of American income is paid in taxes
Most Americans live below 50% of the average GLOBAL income.
Most People with Diabetes Do Not Meet Treatment Goals
Most people with asthma in U.S. don't get a flu shot
Most People Cannot Recognize Heart Attack Symptoms
Most people don't abuse their children


Most people.... do a lot of different things. Some good, some bad.

Faith, convince us that YOUR idea is good. In your own words, and using real-life examples and statistics (since "most" appeals to you).

Hi DD,

Talking about statistics, where is your proof for the above?

Love Faith.xx

[daedalus 2.0]

I would add:

Most scientists are Atheist.
Most people agree that evolution happens, and NOT the story of Creation.
Most people believe that Jesus was NOT the son of a god.
Most people live on LESS than a dollar a day
Most people suffer in some way
Most people die as a Non-Xian
Most people feel women are 2nd rate citizens
Most Xians aren't "good Xians" by their own assessment
Most Mexicans are Xian (than any other country: 99%) - is that what we should strive for? (And, lets face it Mexico, is generally corrupt and poor).
Most of American income is paid in taxes
Most Americans live below 50% of the average GLOBAL income.
Most People with Diabetes Do Not Meet Treatment Goals
Most people with asthma in U.S. don't get a flu shot
Most People Cannot Recognize Heart Attack Symptoms
Most people don't abuse their children


Most people.... do a lot of different things. Some good, some bad.

Faith, convince us that YOUR idea is good. In your own words, and using real-life examples and statistics (since "most" appeals to you).

Hi DD,

Talking about statistics, where is your proof for the above?

Love Faith.xx

Lets assume I made it all up for the sake of argument, do you doubt that I could find statistics that show that a majority of people sometimes choose the right thing and sometimes that majority chooses the wrong thing?

How can you show us that Xinanity is the right thing?


Remember, this is all in response to you claiming that 33% of the world is Xian and therefore, you feel this means that Xinanity is more correct somehow. Sometimes a majority does mean something is right, sometimes not.

Do you want to reconsider this line of argumentation, or will you continue to be argumentative and disingenuous?

[faith]

daedalus 2.0"]

Lets assume I made it all up for the sake of argument, do you doubt that I could find statistics that show that a majority of people sometimes choose the right thing and sometimes that majority chooses the wrong thing?

Let's put it another way, what percentage of people were surveyed to get your percentages and how do they represent the whole of the world?
Surely every person would need to be asked, and I certainly wasn't.
So whilst it is not your sincerity or belief in the figures which I doubt. It is the actual authenticity to suggest a small number can actually represent the true picture and beliefs of the whole. The areas where people surveyed and many more factors would and could alter the outcome of any survey.
So please don't be offended if I question it's authenticity as it in no way reflects on yourself.

How can you show us that Xinanity is the right thing?

It is like medicines with illnesses, the reason we have so many is different people react to medication in different ways. Because we are not all genetically predisposed to reacting the same to medicines. What cures one, can kill another.
The way we receive the truth and the knowledge about Christianity and from whom, can decide whether it becomes right or wrong for us.

I believe that the truth is something we are seeking when we come to Christ.
Some people slip into Christianity because it seems okay and everyone else is doing it. Others like the idea of the cosy life it seems to afford. But our reasons which is our motives play a large part in what Christianity will become to us.

I believe if a person seeks Truth about God because they really want to know if God is real to know him and receive his promises. Then this person will be stronger and find the way to that relationship with God. So Christianity is right for those who are being saved who realise there is body, soul and Spirit within us.
The Spirit side is the inner most being of us, and we tend to ignore this in favour of our physical the body and it's senses. Christianity benefits us in the sense that it allows us to become the true being we are created by God to be.

Imagine 3 circles within each others. The outer the body, the next the soul and then the centre is the spirit. The soul seperates the physical and the Spiritual but being the one which senses and knows both. Jesus the Word of God says,

John 4:22-24. KJV.
22.Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23.But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24.God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

Romans 8:26 (King James Version)
26.Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

1 John 2:20-21 & 26-27.(King James Version)

20.But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21.I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 26.These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27.But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

If you read the words the inner dwelling of us is where Gods Spirit meets our Spirit. Most people never go beyond the truth about Jesus Christ and the spiritual enlightenment of this truth, alot who fall away do not speak of the Spirit because they have received him, but because others have told them they now have him.
Christianity does not just fill the outer needs of the body for religious purposese.
It reaches in to the Spirit and the real Spirit teaching us from within.
But Christianity is based on truth. And it shows that those who follow Christ and listen to his teachings receive the inner dwelling of Gods Spirit as promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34. So unlike other religions christianity promises and provides something other religions do not. It promises love, peace and that God does not expect us to work for this. That he changes us by placing his Spirit within us.
The other religions rely on the outward form of works by the way they live. But Gods way in Christianity tells the truth and relies on truth and the Spirit to lead us in the right way. So God himself living within us in his Spirit through Christ.

Not all who say they know Christ actually do. When you believed, which type of believer were you. Did you ever know the Spirit indwelling? Did they ever teach you the truth that he is real?

Remember, this is all in response to you claiming that 33% of the world is Xian and therefore, you feel this means that Xinanity is more correct somehow. Sometimes a majority does mean something is right, sometimes not.

Do you want to reconsider this line of argumentation, or will you continue to be argumentative and disingenuous?

As you will now see I am not being argumentative or disengenous, I am simply pointing out that true Christianity is not a surface belief, but it is paramount the person is honest and that they seek truth. That this truth is not bore in the understanding and ways of men. The bible may be a sign post but the only true mark of a christian is the ability to live in truth and Spirit. We see that Christianity is the only religion based on love of God and others, that does not leave us to do that loving in our own power. But rather they that are true received the inner power and promise of God, the Holy Spirit as the first apostles did. That this power is not given in any other religion.

Love Faith.xx

[daedalus 2.0]

Let's put it another way, what percentage of people were surveyed to get your percentages and how do they represent the whole of the world?
Surely every person would need to be asked, and I certainly wasn't.
So whilst it is not your sincerity or belief in the figures which I doubt. It is the actual authenticity to suggest a small number can actually represent the true picture and beliefs of the whole. The areas where people surveyed and many more factors would and could alter the outcome of any survey.
So please don't be offended if I question it's authenticity as it in no way reflects on yourself.

Let's take one of them.

Do you agree or disagree that most people suffer in some way?

Or, lets use this: Do you agree or disagree that most people make mistakes?

I think you would say "yes", right?

OK, so the majority of people make mistakes or suffer in some way - does that make it the right thing to do?

Point is: The majority is a poor guide to see if something is right or not.

It is like medicines with illnesses, the reason we have so many is different people react to medication in different ways. Because we are not all genetically predisposed to reacting the same to medicines. What cures one, can kill another.
The way we receive the truth and the knowledge about Christianity and from whom, can decide whether it becomes right or wrong for us.

I believe that the truth is something we are seeking when we come to Christ.
Some people slip into Christianity because it seems okay and everyone else is doing it. Others like the idea of the cosy life it seems to afford. But our reasons which is our motives play a large part in what Christianity will become to us.

I believe if a person seeks Truth about God because they really want to know if God is real to know him and receive his promises. Then this person will be stronger and find the way to that relationship with God. So Christianity is right for those who are being saved who realise there is body, soul and Spirit within us.
The Spirit side is the inner most being of us, and we tend to ignore this in favour of our physical the body and it's senses. Christianity benefits us in the sense that it allows us to become the true being we are created by God to be.

Imagine 3 circles within each others. The outer the body, the next the soul and then the centre is the spirit. The soul seperates the physical and the Spiritual but being the one which senses and knows both. Jesus the Word of God says,

John 4:22-24. KJV.
22.Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23.But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24.God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

Romans 8:26 (King James Version)
26.Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

1 John 2:20-21 & 26-27.(King James Version)

20.But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21.I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 26.These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27.But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

If you read the words the inner dwelling of us is where Gods Spirit meets our Spirit. Most people never go beyond the truth about Jesus Christ and the spiritual enlightenment of this truth, alot who fall away do not speak of the Spirit because they have received him, but because others have told them they now have him.
Christianity does not just fill the outer needs of the body for religious purposese.
It reaches in to the Spirit and the real Spirit teaching us from within.
But Christianity is based on truth. And it shows that those who follow Christ and listen to his teachings receive the inner dwelling of Gods Spirit as promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34. So unlike other religions christianity promises and provides something other religions do not. It promises love, peace and that God does not expect us to work for this. That he changes us by placing his Spirit within us.
The other religions rely on the outward form of works by the way they live. But Gods way in Christianity tells the truth and relies on truth and the Spirit to lead us in the right way. So God himself living within us in his Spirit through Christ.

Not all who say they know Christ actually do. When you believed, which type of believer were you. Did you ever know the Spirit indwelling? Did they ever teach you the truth that he is real?

I'm so glad you feel you so important to be a spokesperson for God and know what the right way is for everyone. I imagine you get miffed that the Pope thinks you're not a real Xian. I'll trust the Pope, since he has actually read the Bible in the original languages, not you. You are regurgitating propaganda.

I once believed Santa was real, when I was little.

As you will now see I am not being argumentative or disengenous, I am simply pointing out that true Christianity is not a surface belief, but it is paramount the person is honest and that they seek truth. That this truth is not bore in the understanding and ways of men. The bible may be a sign post but the only true mark of a christian is the ability to live in truth and Spirit. We see that Christianity is the only religion based on love of God and others, that does not leave us to do that loving in our own power. But rather they that are true received the inner power and promise of God, the Holy Spirit as the first apostles did. That this power is not given in any other religion.

Love Faith.xx

How do you know you are right and not persuaded by Satan to think you are right? As I hear it, Satan is as powerful as God - at least, more powerful than you. You may say "God help me", but how do you know Satan isn't pretending to be God? Satan may pretend that love and obedience is the good thing to do, when the real God thinks otherwise?

The only thing you can say is: You have Faith in yourself to determine the truth, since you have to decide if Satan is talking or God. This means you have taken all the responsibility of determining truth, not God.

Do you see? YOU have chosen your belief. (In fact, by your religion, you have free will and must freely choose your belief).

How do you know you chose correctly? Satan may be playing a life-long trick on you that will only be revealed when you die - and trying to get you to convince other people, too.


No thanks, I'll stay out of your and Satan's mind games. The Pope says you're not Xian. That's good enough for me.