Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?

[oldbadger]

This my question:-

If a Christian infant dies, will it automatically gain entry to Heaven?

[myth-one.com]

I have given a detailed summary of the fate of deceased infants, with supporting scriptures.

You and many other Christians, and that is the point. What you didn't address once again was:
- "do you actually think you are the one that got it right and your other believers are wrong?"

I think that the scriptures got it right, and that is where I got my beliefs. So yes, I think I got it right.

And I escaped from what "many Christians believe" many years ago.

I was also set free from my Christian beliefs, but I don't see how this is relevant here.

It's relevant because those who deeply believe that deceased infants instantly go to heaven to be with God eternally sometimes act on that false belief.

And I don't remember making any claim of victory?

Well that's odd...
"I claimed that this verse states that every human who ever lived and died will be resurrected -- including deceased infants." = myth-one.com
Please notice the topic once again and then your claim and it should then be more clear.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (I Corinthians 15:22)

All includes every human. Were deceased infants of humans, human? But being resurrected does not mean that they go to Heaven.

And no, it's not clear to me that I made any claim of victory. I simply stated what the scriptures state.

According to the Bible, every human who ever died is now resting in their graves awaiting resurrection. Believers will be resurrected at the Second Coming, and all nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans a thousand years after the Second Coming.

[Clownboat]

I think that the scriptures got it right, and that is where I got my beliefs. So yes, I think I got it right.

This topic is not about the fact that the scriptures cannot be trusted due to how humans go about interpreting them, which is made obvious by arriving at differing conclusions. Thanks for pointing that out though.

I was also set free from my Christian beliefs, but I don't see how this is relevant here.

It's relevant because those who deeply believe that deceased infants instantly go to heaven to be with God eternally sometimes act on that false belief.

Me being set free from my religious beliefs is in fact still not relevant.

According to the Bible, every human who ever died is now resting in their graves awaiting resurrection. Believers will be resurrected at the Second Coming, and all nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans a thousand years after the Second Coming.

The Bible can be made to say just about anything. Again, that is not the topic being discussed here.

Some Christians use the Bible and arrive at one conclusion and other Christians use the Bible and arrive at another conclusion. We know where you stand on the matter and even what scriptures you are personally using. What is most embarrassing is that you are alluding to an Adam and Eve to justify your stance. How much baggage must we accept to take your scripture seriously? You don't actually believe in an Adam and Eve as told in the Bible do you?

[myth-one.com]

Some Christians use the Bible and arrive at one conclusion and other Christians use the Bible and arrive at another conclusion.

Some Christians use the Bible, but the vast majority believe what they are told is in the Bible by family or others they respect and revere which they call pastors or priests.

What is most embarrassing is that you are alluding to an Adam and Eve to justify your stance.

Feel free to use Adolf and Edith:

For as in Adolf all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

It was simply about what made a person Christian. That point brought us to babies born to a Christian parent (which is kind of what I think you mean by "Christian babies".) Since God saves entire households, that would include the children born to that household, so that "Christian babies" do receive a resurrection (if needed) and entrance into the Kingdom (in heaven and/or on earth).

But would it?

Yes.

Are you just imagining what your God would do?

No, and that is what the evidence shows. That is the point of the examples I posted. So you could see for yourself what the evidence shows.

Being a member of a religion/denomination is not what makes a person Christian (which is why I mentioned what makes a person Christian), though that might be another topic. I think my first post on this thread adequately answered the question with regard to "Christian babies":

I will review what you wrote before...............

......most infants are probably not Christian themselves (at least not at this point in their lives). But if an infant is born to a(n actual) Christian parent, then that infant will also be saved (from Death) and receive eternal life in the Kingdom. That infant might not be a member of the Bride (or reign with Christ for a thousand years), but the infant would still receive the promise of eternal life. Remember, the faith of Abraham saved his entire household. Same with Noah. Same with Rahab. Same with the people in Israel (the entire house was covered, every person within that house protected when Death passed over the land).

Peace to you.

But how did you come to believe the above? Abraham's, Noah's and Rahab's families were saved by the Abrahamic God, and so Muslims, Jews, Christians , Babis and Bahais are all following that God.......... so why won't all those babies get to Heaven?

Who has said that those babies won't receive eternal life (in heaven and/or on the earth)?


Peace again to you.

[oldbadger]

Peace to you,

No, and that is what the evidence shows. That is the point of the examples I posted. So you could see for yourself what the evidence shows.

.....most infants are probably not Christian themselves (at least not at this point in their lives). But if an infant is born to a(n actual) Christian parent, then that infant will also be saved (from Death) and receive eternal life in the Kingdom. That infant might not be a member of the Bride (or reign with Christ for a thousand years), but the infant would still receive the promise of eternal life. Remember, the faith of Abraham saved his entire household. Same with Noah. Same with Rahab. Same with the people in Israel (the entire house was covered, every person within that house protected when Death passed over the land).

Peace again to you.

Hello Tam, I am amused by such dogma as the above. Christianity has added so much to what Jesus said that it has figured out the above.

I am reminded of the Muslim dogma that promises the parents of any child that can learn the Koran by heart that they themselves will get to heaven....for that alone. Bahais tell that the parents of declared children will get to heaven, even if not Bahais themselves.

All these dreamed up ideas.........

All the best, OB.

[Clownboat]

Some Christians use the Bible, but the vast majority believe what they are told is in the Bible by family or others they respect and revere which they call pastors or priests.

It is not logical that an all powerful God would create a book with a message for everyone, but then require pastors, priests, theologians, family or others they respect to then interpret the said message. A perfect God would not fail so miserably in delivering its message.

Feel free to use Adolf and Edith:

What are you trying to accomplish by changing the names of the characters? That wont make them anymore real, so I'm confused.

[myth-one.com]

Some Christians use the Bible, but the vast majority believe what they are told is in the Bible by family or others they respect and revere which they call pastors or priests.

It is not logical that an all powerful God would create a book with a message for everyone, but then require pastors, priests, theologians, family or others they respect to then interpret the said message.

Sadly, this message is not to be found in most churches, television evangelistic programs, or crusades. You will find the answers in a book, which many Christian clergy will warn you against reading without careful guidance. That book is the Holy Bible, a translation of the scriptures. The scriptures are the inspired words of God:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (II Timothy 3:16)

Christian churches claim that their doctrine is based on the scriptures. In actuality, most use the Bible to "prove" beliefs they are born with and which their parents and pastors taught them, selecting small portions of the entire Bible. The words of the scriptures are sealed from their understanding:

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot for it is sealed: (Isaiah 29:11)

A perfect God would not fail so miserably in delivering its message.

Man is in training to learn that his way of living is not the best way. Satan and his angels did not have this indoctrination period. The Bible teaches us that following the laws of God is the best way to live. Most humans learn this the hard way. King Solomon, one of the most intelligent people who ever lived, reached the same conclusion most of us will reach over two thousand years ago:

Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labor that I had labored to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 2:11)

One needs to understand the purpose of mankind. God gives us turmoil and crises as learning and character building tools. He chastises us when we disobey Him as we should chastise our children:

My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction: for whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth. (Proverbs 3:11-12)

Children do not necessarily learn to not touch a hot stove by being told not to touch the hot stove. They learn not to touch the hot stove by touching it and being burned.

The conclusion of each person's short human life on earth should be to learn that there is a better way to live, God's way. Having learned this lesson, those humans who are to become new angels in the Kingdom of God, should be less inclined to revolt.

Feel free to use Adolf and Edith:

What are you trying to accomplish by changing the names of the characters? That wont make them anymore real, so I'm confused.

All existing mankind sinned against God by eating from the "forbidden fruit" in the Garden of Eden. Both of them.

That's the important thing. It's the theme stated throughout the scriptures (with one exception):

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23)

Adam and Eve get a lot of bad press, but I'm no better. Sorry for the confusion.

[Clownboat]

It is not logical that an all powerful God would create a book with a message for everyone, but then require pastors, priests, theologians, family or others they respect to then interpret the said message.

Sadly, this message is not to be found in most churches, television evangelistic programs, or crusades. You will find the answers in a book, which many Christian clergy will warn you against reading without careful guidance. That book is the Holy Bible, a translation of the scriptures. The scriptures are the inspired words of God:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (II Timothy 3:16)

Christian churches claim that their doctrine is based on the scriptures. In actuality, most use the Bible to "prove" beliefs they are born with and which their parents and pastors taught them, selecting small portions of the entire Bible. The words of the scriptures are sealed from their understanding:

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot for it is sealed: (Isaiah 29:11)

Sadly, all the words you typed didn't address what I wrote about an all powerful God creating a message for everyone, but then requiring pastors etc... to then interpret the said message. No need to deliver a wall of text if you don't plan on responding to a given statement.

A perfect God would not fail so miserably in delivering its message.

Man is in training to learn that his way of living is not the best way. Satan and his angels did not have this indoctrination period. The Bible teaches us that following the laws of God is the best way to live. Most humans learn this the hard way. King Solomon, one of the most intelligent people who ever lived, reached the same conclusion most of us will reach over two thousand years ago:

Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labor that I had labored to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 2:11)

One needs to understand the purpose of mankind. God gives us turmoil and crises as learning and character building tools. He chastises us when we disobey Him as we should chastise our children:

My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction: for whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth. (Proverbs 3:11-12)

Children do not necessarily learn to not touch a hot stove by being told not to touch the hot stove. They learn not to touch the hot stove by touching it and being burned.

The conclusion of each person's short human life on earth should be to learn that there is a better way to live, God's way. Having learned this lesson, those humans who are to become new angels in the Kingdom of God, should be less inclined to revolt.

Uh oh, you did it again. Offered up all sorts of words, but didn't address the claim that a perfect God wouldn't fail so miserably at delivering its message.

All existing mankind sinned against God by eating from the "forbidden fruit" in the Garden of Eden. Both of them.

Please show that you speak the truth and that this actually happened. Thank you.

[boatsnguitars]

What fascinates me about these issues is how Christians are always programmed to answer in the best way for God, or in favor of the Bible.

Whether or not babies go to Heaven, they will argue vociferously that their position makes God out to look the best in the end.

If you say, "Jesus was violent", they will say yes or no, then defend it to the holt

If you say, God allowed slavery, they will defend God - whether they think God sanctioned it or was against it.

Claim God allows people to suffer in Hell... Yes or no, they defend God.

Forget what God actually believes! They will demand their God would never do do that, but is righteous for this.

None of them seem to pause to think if God agrees with them or not... Because they don't care. They just want to defend their beliefs. Facts, and God, be damned.

[brunumb]

None of them seem to pause to think if God agrees with them or not... Because they don't care. They just want to defend their beliefs. Facts, and God, be damned.

That really cuts to the chase.