Overcome the angry

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FinalEnigma
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Overcome the angry

Post #1

Post by FinalEnigma »

A member posted the following in another thread, and I wanted to discuss it.
"Overcome the angry by non-anger; overcome the wicked by goodness; overcome the miser by generosity; overcome the lair by truth."

and:

"Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal."

I like these because they plainly show how to make the world a better place by practicing kind acts, honesty and compassion. But we clearly see in our world that people tend to repay anger and hatred with more anger and hatred. While that gives them a temporary sense of sanctification, it promotes a cycle of anger and hatred and only makes the world worse off in the long run. If we stop and think before we act, we can realize that if we humble ourselves and resist the urge to fight back, we can return unkind acts with kindness, and we'll never go wrong. The world will either get a little better or stay the same. But it will never get worse by our actions.
(bold added by me)

The first quote I think most certainly can apply, and the second one has some good potential, but I disagree with the interpretation, particularly the bolded section. I think it is absolutely wrong. One cannot always return misdeeds with kindness and reach a positive conclusion. take for example, the school bully. if you don't fight back, and appease him every time he bullies you, you will only be bullied more and more harshly.

There are some fights that you aren't going to win, and some people you aren't going to win over with kindness. The bolded philosophy, while valuable, only applies partially, and the trick is in knowing when to apply which course of action: Kindness to try and win over you aggressor, active resistance to defeat him, cunning to make him unable or unwilling to continue, or exodus to remove yourself from the problem.

with the example of a school bully this would of course, be along the lines of the following: Kindness - make him your friend so he doesn't harass you anymore. Active resistance - beat him up so he stops harassing you. cunning - get him suspended, expelled, or manipulate his motives. or exodus - switch to a different class or school.

Any of these, if executed properly, would accomplish the goal, the idea is to pick which one accomplishes it most effectively and reasonably. Buddhism of course, limits you to Kindness or exodus.

Question for debate: Can kindness and not fighting back succeed in all situations? why or why not?
We do not hate others because of the flaws in their souls, we hate them because of the flaws in our own.

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TXatheist
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Re: Overcome the angry

Post #21

Post by TXatheist »

OnceConvinced wrote:
Seijun wrote: How can you ever be sure that it will not work? The power of kindness to those that do not expect it can surprise you. What if you have returned a bully's harsh treatment with kindness and compassion for a week and you finally give up, not realizing that you have sparked an internal conflict in him about how he has been treating you? The next day you change schools, thereby abandoning him, or you tell on him, thereby betraying him, or you fight back, thereby affirming that violence is acceptable even to you. Or you could continue on, showing him that kindness and compassion is not defeated by anger or violence.
In my experience with a lot of bullies, my kindness turned me into a doormat.
Do you think it would have been more worth your while to have returned their mistreatment?
OnceConvinced wrote:
Seijun wrote: If one's safety/health is truly in danger, then I find it perfectly acceptable, even advisable, to ask an adult to intervene.
Now, this could possibly be the worst advice you can give a kid. "Go tell a teacher". In my experience, if you went to tell the teacher, that made you even more a target of bullies, including other bullies who never bullied you before. Of course if you are being physically abused, then you have very little choice.
So is it "the worst advice you can give a kid" or is it a good idea when a "one's safety/health is truly in danger" as I stated?
OnceConvinced wrote:
Seijun wrote:
But if he is simply verbally abusive, I can take that all day long with a smile and then wish him a pleasant day, even ask him if there is anything I can do for him.
For many bullies, this would just antagonise them even more.
Obviously I will not chase someone down in order to "kill them with kindness". But they approach me and are verbally abusive, and I return their abuse with a pleasant attitude, and that antagonizes them even more, I cannot help it. I am not going to verbally abuse them back in order to appease them.
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Re: Overcome the angry

Post #22

Post by Goat »

Seijun wrote:
OnceConvinced wrote:
Seijun wrote: How can you ever be sure that it will not work? The power of kindness to those that do not expect it can surprise you. What if you have returned a bully's harsh treatment with kindness and compassion for a week and you finally give up, not realizing that you have sparked an internal conflict in him about how he has been treating you? The next day you change schools, thereby abandoning him, or you tell on him, thereby betraying him, or you fight back, thereby affirming that violence is acceptable even to you. Or you could continue on, showing him that kindness and compassion is not defeated by anger or violence.
In my experience with a lot of bullies, my kindness turned me into a doormat.
Do you think it would have been more worth your while to have returned their mistreatment?
.
From my personal experience, if done properly, yet.

To show you are not a doormat can give you a certain amount of respect (depending on how it is done). I got into a fight in school , just once, because of a bully. I never had problems with that bully or his friends after the fight, even though it did cost me a week away from school.

It saved me a lot of unpleasantness later on, since the continuing abuse ceased.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

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Post #23

Post by TXatheist »

I have done some more thinking on this issue and I also consulted some Buddhist friends of mine on another forum, and I have realized something that I had forgotten; the Buddha taught his followers to "walk the middle way." In other words, do not be an extremist. For me to say that one should be a pacifist at all times, under all circumstances is not walking the middle way, it is going to an extreme.

Once again I find that the Buddha's teachings always align with common sense. In this case, that means that there will be times when violence may be called for, whether it is for self defense or even to stop a bully from hurting others. The most important thing to remember is for one's actions to not be motivated by anger itself. One can use common sense and skilled fighting in order to take down a bully and teach him a lesson without going the extra mile and hurting him out of revenge or hate fueled by anger.

I think you guys all have the right attitude on this topic.
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Post #24

Post by FinalEnigma »

Seijun wrote:I have done some more thinking on this issue and I also consulted some Buddhist friends of mine on another forum, and I have realized something that I had forgotten; the Buddha taught his followers to "walk the middle way." In other words, do not be an extremist. For me to say that one should be a pacifist at all times, under all circumstances is not walking the middle way, it is going to an extreme.

Once again I find that the Buddha's teachings always align with common sense. In this case, that means that there will be times when violence may be called for, whether it is for self defense or even to stop a bully from hurting others. The most important thing to remember is for one's actions to not be motivated by anger itself. One can use common sense and skilled fighting in order to take down a bully and teach him a lesson without going the extra mile and hurting him out of revenge or hate fueled by anger.

I think you guys all have the right attitude on this topic.
Thanks for the update and open mind.
We do not hate others because of the flaws in their souls, we hate them because of the flaws in our own.

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