The conservative mind set as far as from a Biblical point of view is bankrupt! You can say that you want to be involved with politics but you can say that God through the Bible has mandated that you be invovled.
The proponents of religious conservatism have not proven their ideals with all that the bible has to say and what they are doing is destroying who and what the church is with their agenda.
Come visit my site and find out more
http://www.kingdomcitizenship.org/book.htm
Politics and the Church
Moderator: Moderators
Post #21
I don't take your words as harsh.
On a message board can anything be personally upsetting?
I use some of topics like sport for the most part. My desire for the most part is to cause "cognitive dissonance" in "freethinkers." It amazes me how much historical and scientific fact is supplanted in higher education by unidirectional mindset during the Liberalizing and Progressive thought process. It's tough for me to stay away from the debate.
But coming across others that stimulate growth towards a better sevice for Christ is a joy.
Thanks.
On a message board can anything be personally upsetting?
I use some of topics like sport for the most part. My desire for the most part is to cause "cognitive dissonance" in "freethinkers." It amazes me how much historical and scientific fact is supplanted in higher education by unidirectional mindset during the Liberalizing and Progressive thought process. It's tough for me to stay away from the debate.
But coming across others that stimulate growth towards a better sevice for Christ is a joy.
Thanks.
Politics and the Church
Post #22AlAyeti,
Thanks! I think it is easy to be misunderstood on e-mail or written forums like this. I am not saying you but in general. You can't tell voice inflection or body language, only written words. Sometimes it can be deceiving...
I enjoy talking to people about subjects where people can be rational and where consistency in arguement or idea is the order of the day.
Just in the past couple weeks this subject of Politics and the Church and all that goes with it came up in conversation at church functions... Objectivity went right out the door and bias and self-centered thinking entered in.
This one guy puts on the air or wanting dialog. But his idea of dialoging about a subject never rocks his boat or calls into question his rendition of orthodoxy.
In any case, the guy got all red faced and threw a lot of arguement dust in the air, then latter denied being angry about the whole thing.
I just hate when people refuse to learn anything new because they think it will nullify their whole lives. We are human and therefore we cannot be without fault. We will have to admit error at some point but many put up the facade of spiritual perfection... I think this reaction in people has to do with them tying up their identity into the things they do and think rather than in God.
Anyhow, discussions of politics and the church can lead to some real headbangers.
TP
Thanks! I think it is easy to be misunderstood on e-mail or written forums like this. I am not saying you but in general. You can't tell voice inflection or body language, only written words. Sometimes it can be deceiving...
I enjoy talking to people about subjects where people can be rational and where consistency in arguement or idea is the order of the day.
Just in the past couple weeks this subject of Politics and the Church and all that goes with it came up in conversation at church functions... Objectivity went right out the door and bias and self-centered thinking entered in.
This one guy puts on the air or wanting dialog. But his idea of dialoging about a subject never rocks his boat or calls into question his rendition of orthodoxy.
In any case, the guy got all red faced and threw a lot of arguement dust in the air, then latter denied being angry about the whole thing.
I just hate when people refuse to learn anything new because they think it will nullify their whole lives. We are human and therefore we cannot be without fault. We will have to admit error at some point but many put up the facade of spiritual perfection... I think this reaction in people has to do with them tying up their identity into the things they do and think rather than in God.
Anyhow, discussions of politics and the church can lead to some real headbangers.
TP
Post #23
Tim,
I wish Christians weren't so afraid of dialog. I thrive in it not because I want to evangelize or try to prove I'm right, but because everyone is created by God and is valuable. Even the violent as long as they are locked away. I know that sounds like self-serving self-imposed nobility but once I started asking questions of people that didn't believe like me I started seeing things much more clear.
Nothing has shaken my faith except my own choices and actions. Christianty is perfect only because Christ our Lord is perfect and for no other reason. I am a "fundamentalist" in that regards. Pope Benedict and I would agree on the absolute value of that.
But what I think is really important in living "in the world" is to see the value in others as God's creations. And we have to let them alone to their choices. Jesus must have walked by a lot of Romans in Judea. Remember He was even amazed by one. But other than the Roman coming to Him, we don't see much in the way of dictating to others what they should and shouldn't do. Unless of course they claimed to be believers. Then Jesus said a lot.
BTW, I learned not to talk too much to people at church.
A question.
Why do you think so many Christians are afraid to talk to non-Christians?
I'll bet your perspective is a good one.
I wish Christians weren't so afraid of dialog. I thrive in it not because I want to evangelize or try to prove I'm right, but because everyone is created by God and is valuable. Even the violent as long as they are locked away. I know that sounds like self-serving self-imposed nobility but once I started asking questions of people that didn't believe like me I started seeing things much more clear.
Nothing has shaken my faith except my own choices and actions. Christianty is perfect only because Christ our Lord is perfect and for no other reason. I am a "fundamentalist" in that regards. Pope Benedict and I would agree on the absolute value of that.
But what I think is really important in living "in the world" is to see the value in others as God's creations. And we have to let them alone to their choices. Jesus must have walked by a lot of Romans in Judea. Remember He was even amazed by one. But other than the Roman coming to Him, we don't see much in the way of dictating to others what they should and shouldn't do. Unless of course they claimed to be believers. Then Jesus said a lot.
BTW, I learned not to talk too much to people at church.
A question.
Why do you think so many Christians are afraid to talk to non-Christians?
I'll bet your perspective is a good one.
Poltics and the Church
Post #24AlAyeti,
I think many believers are afraid of dialog because they are insecure or they are not as convinced of their belief as they would be if their belief was their life. Many church people it would seem are eclectic thinkers. Their minds are full of split ends because their identity is not one. They have their self-life, sex-life, professional-life so on and so forth. They become split by all these identities and pursuits that they cannot be consistent in life or thought.
I am waking up to your admonition/discovery that it is not good to talk much in church. Your likely to get your head removed or be thrown out as heretic if you make any comparison questions between modern tendencies and the scripture.
I also enjoy talking with people who are not believers or who come from a different mind set than I do. One can learn a lot if they ask questions and keep their bazoo shut. I am a quality-time person so this "visiting" with anybody and everybody is a natural for me.
I worked with this Japanese guy who was an self-acclaimed atheist/socialist married to a racist women from the deep South. I was told never to talk to him about church... because he absolutely hated Christians. We visited for a long time about all sorts of stuff and once he said, "I bet your a christian." He said it as though he were ready to pounce on the next thing I said and nuke me on the spot. I answered and said, no I am not any kind of Christian, I am a follower of Christ. It took the wind right out of his sail and he was dumbfounded! We enjoyed many an hour of conversation on things that matter and I was able to influence him for the Kingdom.
I think most believers I know are afraid to talk to secular people because Christ isn't real to them. Christianity is just a belief in a belief for many. And how does one convince another to convert to something that is just a head trip? You see that the christian establishment is bent on trying to make christianity acceptable to the world, by duplicating everything it can from the world's hit parade in some whitewashed form. Somehow this is suppose to appeal to the world, but it in fact waters down what we really are and what we are suppose to be living.
However, if Christ is our life and we are doing what we see/hear the Father doing, it is no longer a headtrip but a new life. Colossians say, "Christ in us the hope of glory." God has given us everything that pertains to life and godliness right now today. We don't have to figure out what to say to folks who ask, all we have to do is be listening and obedient. We don't have to work it up and prepare, prepare, prepare.
Modern believers are fairly ignorant of what the word really says. They have bought in large part into big box thinking where somebody has engineered everything for them and all they have to do is read and apply it when the right situations fly by. This is so lame!
Many believers are not well read and so they are also ignorant of historical events, movements of God, how and what has been done in the past and what things we might have learned if we'd bothered to read and study. I regard myself as a novice in some of these things but I am determined to read things of quality and conviction.
My favorite stuff to read is biographies. I learn so much of what God can do and has done through this venue. I like reading old stuff from people who paid a price for what they put on paper. It is cheap and easy to postulate any number of novel ideas to a bunch of gnostic believing street philosophers that fill the pews on Sunday. However, it is tough to teach the gospel Christ taught and paid a price to teach it against the will of a government or culture. How these people did things and what they taught about in doing them fascinates me.
Anyhow I am getting long here.
I have a question for you: what do you write about? I think you said your a writer, yes?
Tell me about it, I am interested
I think many believers are afraid of dialog because they are insecure or they are not as convinced of their belief as they would be if their belief was their life. Many church people it would seem are eclectic thinkers. Their minds are full of split ends because their identity is not one. They have their self-life, sex-life, professional-life so on and so forth. They become split by all these identities and pursuits that they cannot be consistent in life or thought.
I am waking up to your admonition/discovery that it is not good to talk much in church. Your likely to get your head removed or be thrown out as heretic if you make any comparison questions between modern tendencies and the scripture.
I also enjoy talking with people who are not believers or who come from a different mind set than I do. One can learn a lot if they ask questions and keep their bazoo shut. I am a quality-time person so this "visiting" with anybody and everybody is a natural for me.
I worked with this Japanese guy who was an self-acclaimed atheist/socialist married to a racist women from the deep South. I was told never to talk to him about church... because he absolutely hated Christians. We visited for a long time about all sorts of stuff and once he said, "I bet your a christian." He said it as though he were ready to pounce on the next thing I said and nuke me on the spot. I answered and said, no I am not any kind of Christian, I am a follower of Christ. It took the wind right out of his sail and he was dumbfounded! We enjoyed many an hour of conversation on things that matter and I was able to influence him for the Kingdom.
I think most believers I know are afraid to talk to secular people because Christ isn't real to them. Christianity is just a belief in a belief for many. And how does one convince another to convert to something that is just a head trip? You see that the christian establishment is bent on trying to make christianity acceptable to the world, by duplicating everything it can from the world's hit parade in some whitewashed form. Somehow this is suppose to appeal to the world, but it in fact waters down what we really are and what we are suppose to be living.
However, if Christ is our life and we are doing what we see/hear the Father doing, it is no longer a headtrip but a new life. Colossians say, "Christ in us the hope of glory." God has given us everything that pertains to life and godliness right now today. We don't have to figure out what to say to folks who ask, all we have to do is be listening and obedient. We don't have to work it up and prepare, prepare, prepare.
Modern believers are fairly ignorant of what the word really says. They have bought in large part into big box thinking where somebody has engineered everything for them and all they have to do is read and apply it when the right situations fly by. This is so lame!
Many believers are not well read and so they are also ignorant of historical events, movements of God, how and what has been done in the past and what things we might have learned if we'd bothered to read and study. I regard myself as a novice in some of these things but I am determined to read things of quality and conviction.
My favorite stuff to read is biographies. I learn so much of what God can do and has done through this venue. I like reading old stuff from people who paid a price for what they put on paper. It is cheap and easy to postulate any number of novel ideas to a bunch of gnostic believing street philosophers that fill the pews on Sunday. However, it is tough to teach the gospel Christ taught and paid a price to teach it against the will of a government or culture. How these people did things and what they taught about in doing them fascinates me.
Anyhow I am getting long here.
I have a question for you: what do you write about? I think you said your a writer, yes?
Tell me about it, I am interested
Post #25
"Many believers are not well read and so they are also ignorant of historical events, movements of God, how and what has been done in the past and what things we might have learned if we'd bothered to read and study."
/ / /
How "oh so" right you are. History is not so bad on "Christianty" when compared to anything else. If you've seen some of my responses to other topic posts, you see that ignorance is in the secular camp far more than (or just as much) in the garden variety Christian.
If believers spent some time reading books "by" and not "on" Hume, Locke, Paine, Jefferson, Nietzsche, Freud, to name a just few and not to mention the Greek philosophers . . ., they would see how vapid the secularists are in their threatening nature towards the Church. (Truly the weakness of spoiled children raised by parents with little backbone.) Although Locke and Paine are inspirations to me, they have done nothing to shake my faith in Christ in the slightest. In fact, Locke solidifies the empirical nature of trusting a life of faith. Freud and Nietzsche are pitiful little nutballs and how they hold such influence on secularism is laughable.
OK I'll mention them. . . And the Greeks, they are awesome in so many (philosophical) ways. "Logos" literally "what" Jesus "is" was an original idea of theirs.
And isn't it interesting that "cognitive dissonance" from "irreducible complexity" is now buzzing the minds of anti and non-Christians every bit as much as they would like "CD" causing us discomfort. It reminds me of Star Trek when the robot droids say "that does not compute," and short circuit. Or, attack.
Science is nothing a Christian should shy from as it proves every moral position we should hold as solid, is in fact solidly provable. Once that comfort level is reached then the political diatribe can be let go of and the shoring up of each other can bring the world a much brighter light. But doesn't it say somewhere "study to show yourself approved."
Do you read and/or study the philosophers? Especially from the enlightenment (what a joke) the philosophes, the "empiricists."
I have been fortunate of late, to be writing and getting paid for it. But I would rather not get into that on a mesage board.
Thanks for understanding.
/ / /
How "oh so" right you are. History is not so bad on "Christianty" when compared to anything else. If you've seen some of my responses to other topic posts, you see that ignorance is in the secular camp far more than (or just as much) in the garden variety Christian.
If believers spent some time reading books "by" and not "on" Hume, Locke, Paine, Jefferson, Nietzsche, Freud, to name a just few and not to mention the Greek philosophers . . ., they would see how vapid the secularists are in their threatening nature towards the Church. (Truly the weakness of spoiled children raised by parents with little backbone.) Although Locke and Paine are inspirations to me, they have done nothing to shake my faith in Christ in the slightest. In fact, Locke solidifies the empirical nature of trusting a life of faith. Freud and Nietzsche are pitiful little nutballs and how they hold such influence on secularism is laughable.
OK I'll mention them. . . And the Greeks, they are awesome in so many (philosophical) ways. "Logos" literally "what" Jesus "is" was an original idea of theirs.
And isn't it interesting that "cognitive dissonance" from "irreducible complexity" is now buzzing the minds of anti and non-Christians every bit as much as they would like "CD" causing us discomfort. It reminds me of Star Trek when the robot droids say "that does not compute," and short circuit. Or, attack.
Science is nothing a Christian should shy from as it proves every moral position we should hold as solid, is in fact solidly provable. Once that comfort level is reached then the political diatribe can be let go of and the shoring up of each other can bring the world a much brighter light. But doesn't it say somewhere "study to show yourself approved."
Do you read and/or study the philosophers? Especially from the enlightenment (what a joke) the philosophes, the "empiricists."
I have been fortunate of late, to be writing and getting paid for it. But I would rather not get into that on a mesage board.
Thanks for understanding.
Politics and the church
Post #26AlAyeti,
Sorry to take so long to get back. Family stuff, you know.
I agree with you that ignorance is all around. I would think that we a followers of Christ should be more objective and less take it as it comes, minded. We should have the desire to know and learn more than anyone.
I have not spent any time with any of the philosophers you mentioned, Hume, Locke, Paine, Jefferson, Nietzsche, Freud. I have watched documentaries on their lives just because I am a nut about historical figures. I recently read Kruschev's memoirs and a couple of other book more about WW II...
The foolishness of the philosophical assaults on the Bible and church are very similar to the foolishness foist on the people of communist countries by their leadership. Have you ever studied some of the dictators in these countries? Most were rank idiots that had an eye for manipulation and cruelty. Most had no genius or expertise and maybe even less than the average man. But they were given tremendous power and influence. I think it is all part of the communist way, using insanity to create confusion and suspicion. Once you have these, control is much easier.... Maybe its the same with philosophy. Throw out some sophisticated crap and lesser men then argue over it for centuries...
What do you find interesting about Paine and Nietzsche?
I agree with you about CD and that science does not threaten moral positions... I question some times how much we need to challenge that fool who says there is no God. If he is honestly pursuing truth, seriously believing that there is no God, he will certianly either discover the truth or hit his head on it and reject it.
At my church they had the usual "evolution" debunking session. I questioned a leader asking him, "whose is more foolish the fool or the person who chases after him?" With evolution it seems that christians spend tremendous time trying to convince the fool that his foolishness is not right. I suppose this is ok but I think we can prove foolishness by doing something with the truth that is not a confrontation but a demonstration, kind of like Peter and John going to the temple to pray and healing a lame man. No one could deny it or refute it, but it sure caused a controversy over who the people were going to believe.
I have not read much of the enlightenment or the greeks. Maybe I will get a chance to do that in the future. I guess they used to have students read more of that stuff in the schools year before I went. I had the misfortune to have been under a lot of modern school experiments in education, so I missed a lot of practical things in my younger years.
What kinds of things to you write on?
TimPrice
Sorry to take so long to get back. Family stuff, you know.
I agree with you that ignorance is all around. I would think that we a followers of Christ should be more objective and less take it as it comes, minded. We should have the desire to know and learn more than anyone.
I have not spent any time with any of the philosophers you mentioned, Hume, Locke, Paine, Jefferson, Nietzsche, Freud. I have watched documentaries on their lives just because I am a nut about historical figures. I recently read Kruschev's memoirs and a couple of other book more about WW II...
The foolishness of the philosophical assaults on the Bible and church are very similar to the foolishness foist on the people of communist countries by their leadership. Have you ever studied some of the dictators in these countries? Most were rank idiots that had an eye for manipulation and cruelty. Most had no genius or expertise and maybe even less than the average man. But they were given tremendous power and influence. I think it is all part of the communist way, using insanity to create confusion and suspicion. Once you have these, control is much easier.... Maybe its the same with philosophy. Throw out some sophisticated crap and lesser men then argue over it for centuries...
What do you find interesting about Paine and Nietzsche?
I agree with you about CD and that science does not threaten moral positions... I question some times how much we need to challenge that fool who says there is no God. If he is honestly pursuing truth, seriously believing that there is no God, he will certianly either discover the truth or hit his head on it and reject it.
At my church they had the usual "evolution" debunking session. I questioned a leader asking him, "whose is more foolish the fool or the person who chases after him?" With evolution it seems that christians spend tremendous time trying to convince the fool that his foolishness is not right. I suppose this is ok but I think we can prove foolishness by doing something with the truth that is not a confrontation but a demonstration, kind of like Peter and John going to the temple to pray and healing a lame man. No one could deny it or refute it, but it sure caused a controversy over who the people were going to believe.
I have not read much of the enlightenment or the greeks. Maybe I will get a chance to do that in the future. I guess they used to have students read more of that stuff in the schools year before I went. I had the misfortune to have been under a lot of modern school experiments in education, so I missed a lot of practical things in my younger years.
What kinds of things to you write on?
TimPrice
Post #27
Paine and Nietzsche?
Nietzsche I have no admiration for of any kind. Other than his writings lead the degenerates of society to accomplish things they otherwise never would. Manipullting others I guess, is some kind of accomplishment. Not one I respect though. Hitler was a great example of Nietzsche (and of course Darwin), as was Lenin and Stalin.
Paine I like because his writings are some of the most important to U.S. history. And, he was influenced by John Locke. Though Paine was wrong about the Christian faith, many fine people have been on Earth that aren't orthodox Christians. Nietzsche wasn't one of them. Deists are at least admirable in the fact that they can see the world (as in origin) is not a crap shoot.
Our world IS the result of philosphers and Jesus. Studying this in detail is not difficult. Reading is the way. Reading what each said or wrote that is. So much of the debate is taken on by people only passing on what they heard, not what they read. Freud for instance, once you get into his life, he was a pathetic individual. Though a prophet of the religion known as psychology, he was nothing special, except fot the horror he cause by his little dogma (psychology) forcing its way into medicine. He's touted as a great mind yet was too stupid to stop smoking as doctors were hacking off his face from the cancer he got from smoking. Yeah, yeah, "he was just a man." Precisely my point.
As Christians read about the great people who have carved the world into the shape it is now, they find out that hypocrisy is not exculsive to adherents of religion.
Nietzsche I have no admiration for of any kind. Other than his writings lead the degenerates of society to accomplish things they otherwise never would. Manipullting others I guess, is some kind of accomplishment. Not one I respect though. Hitler was a great example of Nietzsche (and of course Darwin), as was Lenin and Stalin.
Paine I like because his writings are some of the most important to U.S. history. And, he was influenced by John Locke. Though Paine was wrong about the Christian faith, many fine people have been on Earth that aren't orthodox Christians. Nietzsche wasn't one of them. Deists are at least admirable in the fact that they can see the world (as in origin) is not a crap shoot.
Our world IS the result of philosphers and Jesus. Studying this in detail is not difficult. Reading is the way. Reading what each said or wrote that is. So much of the debate is taken on by people only passing on what they heard, not what they read. Freud for instance, once you get into his life, he was a pathetic individual. Though a prophet of the religion known as psychology, he was nothing special, except fot the horror he cause by his little dogma (psychology) forcing its way into medicine. He's touted as a great mind yet was too stupid to stop smoking as doctors were hacking off his face from the cancer he got from smoking. Yeah, yeah, "he was just a man." Precisely my point.
As Christians read about the great people who have carved the world into the shape it is now, they find out that hypocrisy is not exculsive to adherents of religion.
Poltics and the Church
Post #28AlAyeti,
Sorry for taking so long to get back.
Philosophy can be interesting I agree. I just don't have time to read so much stuff. I want to be careful what I put in my mind as well... For instance I have heard some stuff about Karl Barth but it is so mixed that I am not sure I want to waste my time. I read a few things about Jacques Ellul and most of it was positive so I have read a few of his books, The False Presense of the Kingdom and Hope in a time of Abandonment.
I have read bad things about Paine and so I have never bothered. He might be fine or even great I just haven't read anything about him so far that makes me want to run out and read his stuff. I tend to be a practical sort that concentrates not on novelty of an idea, but the practical outflow of what it produces if anything.
Having said this I am reading Karl Marx's work Das Capital. I am intrigued by what caused 2/3 of the world to go to a system based from his postulations. Its pretty dry reading and I am not impressed so far. I may even give it up. After reading Richard Wurmbrand's work Tortured for Christ where he notes a lot of Marx's comments I wanted to read his junk for myself.
TimPrice
Sorry for taking so long to get back.
Philosophy can be interesting I agree. I just don't have time to read so much stuff. I want to be careful what I put in my mind as well... For instance I have heard some stuff about Karl Barth but it is so mixed that I am not sure I want to waste my time. I read a few things about Jacques Ellul and most of it was positive so I have read a few of his books, The False Presense of the Kingdom and Hope in a time of Abandonment.
I have read bad things about Paine and so I have never bothered. He might be fine or even great I just haven't read anything about him so far that makes me want to run out and read his stuff. I tend to be a practical sort that concentrates not on novelty of an idea, but the practical outflow of what it produces if anything.
Having said this I am reading Karl Marx's work Das Capital. I am intrigued by what caused 2/3 of the world to go to a system based from his postulations. Its pretty dry reading and I am not impressed so far. I may even give it up. After reading Richard Wurmbrand's work Tortured for Christ where he notes a lot of Marx's comments I wanted to read his junk for myself.
TimPrice
Post #29
My point is that we need to endeavor to read the philosophers and thinkers that have literally formed our present culture. Christ and Christianty shines brighter and brighter when empiricism and logic is the lamp of illumination. The Bible is not always necessary to prove right and wrong to be absolutes.
Christians cannot be as effective in communicating to people unless they know what's going on and "how."
Paine, is wrong about Christianty and since he is an awesome guy on freedom's level, the base minded follow his opinions rather than be
"freethinkers." Don't bother with Paine unless you have too.
Don't put down Marx. He's got some good points but the more you know about his stupidity the better. He has formed much of our world and is the god of many, many school teachers and university professors and the worlds greatest murderers, so it is good to know about him.
But what I have learned from entering the fray of defending the faith, is that the arguments against the Church and Christ are pretty weak.
Now it is time to turn all of my attention towards the brethren. And of course my own walk.
Most of the debating I do on other threads is to show other believers who are too putoff by the venture, that our faith is founded on facts and logic and not "chaos to order." And of course the inevitable behavior of those that choose to ground their lives by it.
It CAN be fun sometimes but the serious business is to show believers that though we should not, and do not, seek a place at the table of diversity, we remain on solid ground wherever we walk and stand.
Even if it means the worse to us personally and physically.
Christ is gain.
Christians cannot be as effective in communicating to people unless they know what's going on and "how."
Paine, is wrong about Christianty and since he is an awesome guy on freedom's level, the base minded follow his opinions rather than be
"freethinkers." Don't bother with Paine unless you have too.
Don't put down Marx. He's got some good points but the more you know about his stupidity the better. He has formed much of our world and is the god of many, many school teachers and university professors and the worlds greatest murderers, so it is good to know about him.
But what I have learned from entering the fray of defending the faith, is that the arguments against the Church and Christ are pretty weak.
Now it is time to turn all of my attention towards the brethren. And of course my own walk.
Most of the debating I do on other threads is to show other believers who are too putoff by the venture, that our faith is founded on facts and logic and not "chaos to order." And of course the inevitable behavior of those that choose to ground their lives by it.
It CAN be fun sometimes but the serious business is to show believers that though we should not, and do not, seek a place at the table of diversity, we remain on solid ground wherever we walk and stand.
Even if it means the worse to us personally and physically.
Christ is gain.
Church/State Separation
Post #30AlAyeti,
Agreed. Many feel that if a christian didn't say it then it can't be true. Nonsense! On the contrary I can find many things that well-known christians have said that is patently false but it is still believed by many "faithful".
If christians had been doing what God wanted all along in histroy there never would have been an opportunity for a guy like Marx to postulate a position sauch as he did on the basis of atheism.
I don't look down on Marx at all but I am also aware that his premises are based on faulty footings. Even the Taj Mahal if it should be built on the sand, as beautiful as it is, it would not last or be servicable for very long.
I am talking with some Michael Moore type liberals locally here. There is such hatred of the Bible and God because of the misuses of religious conservatives. The dialog is fun but tough because offenses are driven deep by well-meaning but very mislead christains.
My desire is to stir thought and try to challenge imperfection in the body so that we can move to heal and give example rather than inflicting more wounds than is ever necessary.
TimPrice
Agreed. Many feel that if a christian didn't say it then it can't be true. Nonsense! On the contrary I can find many things that well-known christians have said that is patently false but it is still believed by many "faithful".
If christians had been doing what God wanted all along in histroy there never would have been an opportunity for a guy like Marx to postulate a position sauch as he did on the basis of atheism.
I don't look down on Marx at all but I am also aware that his premises are based on faulty footings. Even the Taj Mahal if it should be built on the sand, as beautiful as it is, it would not last or be servicable for very long.
I am talking with some Michael Moore type liberals locally here. There is such hatred of the Bible and God because of the misuses of religious conservatives. The dialog is fun but tough because offenses are driven deep by well-meaning but very mislead christains.
My desire is to stir thought and try to challenge imperfection in the body so that we can move to heal and give example rather than inflicting more wounds than is ever necessary.
TimPrice
