What is our Universe Status?

[Bro Dave]

Are we all Citizens of this Universe? Or are we just egotistical virus' living on a speck of space dust? Are all those innumerable stars and galaxies really just sky decorations? Or are we someone elses "decorations" as well?

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java ... index.html

Bro Dave

[ShieldAxe]

Even Carl [Sagan] finally became convinced of the existance of a Creator.

Bro Dave

This statement is not true.

[QED]

Even Carl [Sagan] finally became convinced of the existance of a Creator.

Bro Dave

This statement is not true.

In 1996, Sagan was profiled by Jim Dawson in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, and said, "My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it. ... An agnostic is somebody who doesn't believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I'm agnostic." He said much the same to Parade magazine, for which he was contributing editor. "There was no conversion in his deathbed," said Druyan. "Neither did he call to God, nor on hope in another life, nor pretend that he and I, who were inseparable for 20 years, were not saying good-bye forever." Furthermore, said Druyan, "Carl never wanted to believe. ... He wanted to know."

Contrary to the fantasies of the fundamentalists, there was no deathbed conversion, no last-minute refuge taken in a comforting vision of a heaven or an afterlife. For Carl, what mattered most was what was true, not merely what would make us feel better.

http://www.geocities.com/mindbrainsoul/ ... ruyan.html

I think Sagan was interested in thinking about how we might come to discover a creator but it would be wrong to interpret that him believing in a creator. You can certainly count me in with him on that.

[Cathar1950]

I am sort of with carl on this one.
Even if there is a God and I am inclined to believe in something more then myself even if it is just a connectiveness and sympathy. This does not mean that God is the creator. Like much of the bible it is assumed from passages. Maybe they just were bragging. It is possible that a God could be a part of creation and the universe. If there is a God I would think that God would be moved by creation even if God didn't make the universe.

[Rob]

It is possible that a God could be a part of creation and the universe. If there is a God I would think that God would be moved by creation ...

You may already be familiar with Alfred North Whiteheads Process Thought, but there is a branch of theology very much influenced by his thought is this area, and it is called Process Theology. If you are not familiar with it you might be interested, as it is basically what you are saying above; that God is participating as process, and it is this process that is on ongoing creation, which we are co-paricipants in and with. Process Theology suggests that God is "moved by creation" in the sense that the process is not completely deterministic, but is open to new possibilities and potentialities.

Anyway, given your expression above Cathar, I thought you might find Process Thought interesting.

[Cathar1950]

Anyway, given your expression above Cathar, I thought you might find Process Thought interesting.
I suppose so.
Whitehead, Hartshorne, James, Pierce, Wieman, Shailer Mathews, S.J.Case, Heisenberg, an J.A. Wheeler. This is what I mean by radical empiricism as I mentioned in another thread. On the other hand I am fond of Fromm, Jung and even Freud.