Does God cause evil?

[DanieltheDragon]

Does God cause evil?

Some assert that God causes no evil. Is there cause to believe this is true. Can this position be supported. Is the character described in the bible incapable of evil?

I would assert that a position that claims God created everything would make him the original cause of evil. That God cannot escape being the cause of evil since he created any and all situations in which evil would arise.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 20 by theophile]

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Did God create the tree which brought forth the apple?

Ho - hum, this and others were posted before - I am curious, I have heard of selected hearing, but selective reading?

Whyfor is it that when the Bible says something against personal belief, those that believe deny it three times before the cock crows?

[theophile]

[Replying to post 21 by Willum]

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Did I deny any of this? I think what I said fits perfectly, and would happily affirm this statement of God. There is no "selective reading" going on. Please clarify where you think I contradict this.

Did God create the tree which brought forth the apple?

What apple? You mean the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Okay. Gen 2 says God made all the trees grow out of the ground. So God is tantamount to a gardener here. Does a gardener create the tree? In a sense, sure. But so does the ground. The light. The water...

Still not following how this would make God the originator of evil, if that is your point. All the tree provides is knowledge of these things. So the most we can say, maybe, is that God has knowledge of evil. Or of its concept and possibility.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

"It's true because I personally choose to believe it," is not really an argument though, is it! Because it's not a statement of fact. It's a statement of personal belief.

The same could be said of atheism.

My supposition is that everything that occurs does so naturally in accordance with the laws of physics and quantum mechanics. For proof I offer modern working technology which is based on an understanding of the way quantum mechanics works. I could be wrong, this is true. But if quantum mechanics is not valid then science is all wrong. Which would leave us in the embarrassing position of having no idea why our technology works at all.

Your supposition is that the universe was created by an invisible Being who dwells in an invisible realm. For proof you offer your best assurances.

Notice any difference in suppositions?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 22 by theophile]

I really believe, you will stop believing what you believe, if you think this post all the way through:
This post!

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 22 by theophile]

But so does the ground. The light. The water...

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,� and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,� and the darkness he called “night.� And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.


Just stepping in to point out another thing God created...

[ttruscott]

Because the Bible plainly SAYS that God creates evil.

Isaiah 45:
[7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Some Christian Bibles have, understandably, chosen to translate the word "evil" in Isaiah 45 as something else. But the language of the original Hebrew is quite clear.

This statement is very misleading, to my mind:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Le ... 7451&t=KJV
Evil in Isa 45:7: Strong's H7451 - ra`
[Short definition: adversity http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7451.htm]
Also:
bad, evil
bad, disagreeable, malignant
bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
evil, displeasing
bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)
bad (of value)
worse than, worst (comparison)
sad, unhappy
evil (hurtful)
bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)
bad, evil, wicked (ethically)
in general, of persons, of thoughts
deeds, actions

evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
evil, distress, adversity
evil, injury, wrong
evil (ethical)

evil, misery, distress, injury
evil, misery, distress
evil, injury, wrong
evil (ethical)


Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7451.htm, concur. There is no preferred single use of ra` to mean moral evil and all choices between the range of use in the bible are interpretational to be chosen by context.

Your assertion translators have chosen evil as something else and that it is quite clear that YHWH creates evil plainly written is disingenuous at best. The fact that ra` can be translated as moral evil is put to rest in this context in that it is being applied to YHWH who is light and in whom is no darkness at all. When you see darkness emanating from a lit candle, then Christians might start to get their interpretations from the secular world.

[American Deist]

My supposition is that everything that occurs does so naturally in accordance with the laws of physics and quantum mechanics.

As do I. I just take it one step further and attribute the creation of those laws to God.

For proof I offer modern working technology which is based on an understanding of the way quantum mechanics works.

I have never denied science. I support it 100%.

I could be wrong, this is true.

That is correct. Science can't give us all the answers. Aspects of our scientific knowledge could be wrong, or it could not be valid in another galaxy. Perhaps there are forces out there we have yet to encounter.

But if quantum mechanics is not valid then science is all wrong.

Or just our current understanding/definition is wrong. A tweak here and there tends to happen.

Which would leave us in the embarrassing position of having no idea why our technology works at all.

Wouldn't be the first time.

Your supposition is that the universe was created by an invisible Being who dwells in an invisible realm.

Indeed, though I say entity, not being.

Notice any difference in suppositions?

Yes. I take it one step further to offer an explanation that, at this point in time, can't be disproven.

[theophile]

[Replying to post 24 by Willum]

I really believe, you will stop believing what you believe, if you think this post all the way through:

You're going to have to give me more than that. I'm not tracking.

[theophile]

[Replying to post 25 by DanieltheDragon]

Just stepping in to point out another thing God created...

Is your point that this means God created evil?

Okay, if God's creation of life also creates the possibility of evil, then sure, I agree.

But creating the possibility of evil is not the same as creating evil.

It certainly isn't the same as causing evil, which was the OP, and which I already replied to in the affirmative.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 29 by theophile]

So God creates two paths, one with evil, one not.
Because one path is not taken, does that mean he other fails to exist?

No, it remains there until taken, existing.