The logic of prayer requests

[Justin108]

Hello all,

I am posting this to ask fellow Christians to take a moment to pray for my Jehovah's Witness brothers and sisters in Russia who are suffering persecution at this present time. We can only hope the Russian authorities see the wisdom of respecting freedom of worship in their country.

JW

Further reading
https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-reg ... -20170308/

A few questions on the logic of prayer requests.

1. Do prayers become stronger the more people pray? Is a prayer prayed for by 100 people more likely to come true than one prayed for by 5 people?

If yes, then what is the logic behind this? Does God only notice a prayer after enough people chip in? Do enough people need to "vote" for a prayer before God takes action? Does it somehow convince God that it's worth answering because so many people want it?

If the number of people praying is irrelevant, then why bother making prayer requests? Why not simply pray to God yourself? Wouldn't that be enough?

2. This question is specific to the prayer request below.

We can only hope the Russian authorities see the wisdom of respecting freedom of worship in their country.

Suppose God answered this prayer. Wouldn't this involve God interfering with free will? Isn't it the free will of the Russian authorities that lead to them persecuting Jehovah's Witnesses? Wouldn't God making them "see the wisdom" essentially be God messing with their free will?

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 19 by JehovahsWitness]
I see we've reached the "I don't want to talk to Justin anymore" part of the debate?

[Justin108]

More likely? That involves probability; if the deity prayed to is more like a person, then obviously mathematical probability does not factor.

How does probability not factor? The entire field of marketing relies on influencing the probability of human behavior. Throw enough ads about a certain product around and it increases the probability that people will buy said product. Otherwise, the entire field of marketing would be a complete waste of money.

And since the model for supplication is "not my will but thine", obviously petitionary prayer is not thought of as magic.

Then Jehovah's Witness' request for prayer was pointless, as no matter how many people prayed, God would still do whatever he willed.

If "religion" were a "just you and me God" enterprise, then perhaps. As Christianity is apparently far more communal, then obviously there is more to communal prayer than "effectiveness".

So it doesn't actually do anything to better the problem? This doesn't really help the problem in Russia? It just makes Jehovah's Witnesses feel better? Like some kind of group therapy?

No. The notion of "violating free will" in the philosophical sense is a contradiction. It cannot be done. Not because it is "too difficult" but because it is a logical non-entity.

How is it a logical non-entity? If I had mind controlling abilities and I made you eat your own cat, would this not be an example of a violation of free will? Unless you mean to argue that free will does not exist?

[OnceConvinced]

1. Do prayers become stronger the more people pray? Is a prayer prayed for by 100 people more likely to come true than one prayed for by 5 people?

The bible does say where 2 or 3 are gather together that he will be in their midst. That of course opens up another question:

Does the group have to physically be in the same room at the time or can they be in different places? If so, wouldn't that make asking people to pray on Facebook or websites like this be ineffective?

Further more, if God is omnipresent, why would he need to stipulate "where 2 or 3..." Isn't he always in everyone's midst anyway?

Suppose God answered this prayer. Wouldn't this involve God interfering with free will? Isn't it the free will of the Russian authorities that lead to them persecuting Jehovah's Witnesses? Wouldn't God making them "see the wisdom" essentially be God messing with their free will?

I notice that 1213 said God could argue with them and make them see sense through logic and reasoning. God doesn't seem to be very good at that sort of thing. I wonder how often he tries to reason with people like this? Why is he so bad at it, I wonder?

[marco]

[Replying to post 19 by JehovahsWitness]
I see we've reached the "I don't want to talk to Justin anymore" part of the debate?

Moderator Comment




Greetings to you Justin, but let me advise that it is not quite in the spirit of the forum to post this succinct message about another poster. Let others silently make your conclusion for you if there's any validity in it but restrict your comments to the OP.



Please review the Rules.


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