What is self?

[bernee51]

In another thread the following exchange took place:

"I am god, I am perfect, I have perfect love of myself. No dilemma."

One can not create ones self.

Can you define 'self'?

Buddhists would hold otherwise. We do indeed create our self. It can be no other way.

Then buddhists have no parents? Can a buddhists create them selves from nothing? bc i have never seen someone pop into existence from nothing.

Self - "1. a person or thing referred to with respect to complete individuality" (dictionary.com)

The implication from the above question...Then buddhists have no parents?...implies that the self is somehow part of the body. Or the whole body. But is that the case? I am a biological being no different, apart from minor functionality, to any of you. For all intents and purposes we are identical biological beings. If it is 'self' that sets us apart, it is obviously not the biological body.


We say "my' limbs, "my" brain, "my" name, "my" comsciousness. Is the 'self' the exclusive owner of these things? If my leg is cut off, my 'self' has lost an arm but itself remains intact. My physical integrity may be diminished, my 'self' however is preserved. If limbs are lost, at what point does the self begin to vanish? We perceive a self as long as we have the power of thought.

Which brings us to Descartes..."I think therefor I am". Does the fact of thought prove anything about the self? Is not the "I" nothing more than the current contents of our mental flow - changing from moment to moment. It is not enough for something to be perceived or conceived of for that thing toexist. We can see a mirage but it has no reality.

The self is a concept of which we can identify no distinct parts but which allows us to conceive of ourselves as single and complete beings.

But does it really exist and if so where is it?

[bernee51]

I might be entirely wrong, but I believe that self is entirely self determined. Self is also entirely subjective. Self is whatever you choose to believe about you. Self is not spirit or soul. Self is the big ME. Self is what asks the question..."what is self?".

When you say the self is entirely self determined what is the self…that doing the determining or that which is determined?

i.e when the Self describes what it perceives itself to be is that not an object in its awareness.

I think your last sentence goes near to holding the answer.

The question is “Who am I?”

I think self is the reflection of itself. Self seems to be what you think it is, not what it is.

who is thinking? Who is observing what you think yourself to be? Can the observer obsere itself? Can a sword cut itself?

[Goat]

I might be entirely wrong, but I believe that self is entirely self determined. Self is also entirely subjective. Self is whatever you choose to believe about you. Self is not spirit or soul. Self is the big ME. Self is what asks the question..."what is self?".

When you say the self is entirely self determined what is the self…that doing the determining or that which is determined?

i.e when the Self describes what it perceives itself to be is that not an object in its awareness.

I think your last sentence goes near to holding the answer.

The question is “Who am I?”

I think self is the reflection of itself. Self seems to be what you think it is, not what it is.

who is thinking? Who is observing what you think yourself to be? Can the observer obsere itself? Can a sword cut itself?

A river changes all the time. Does a river exist. Is an observer reactiving to what it observes? Can you put your elbow in your ear?

[bernee51]

I might be entirely wrong, but I believe that self is entirely self determined. Self is also entirely subjective. Self is whatever you choose to believe about you. Self is not spirit or soul. Self is the big ME. Self is what asks the question..."what is self?".

When you say the self is entirely self determined what is the self…that doing the determining or that which is determined?

i.e when the Self describes what it perceives itself to be is that not an object in its awareness.

I think your last sentence goes near to holding the answer.

The question is “Who am I?”

I think self is the reflection of itself. Self seems to be what you think it is, not what it is.

who is thinking? Who is observing what you think yourself to be? Can the observer obsere itself? Can a sword cut itself?

A river changes all the time. Does a river exist.

It is still made up of water. Does the water change?

Is an observer reactiving to what it observes?

Is the observer the reaction?

Can you put your elbow in your ear?

Mu?

[Goat]

I might be entirely wrong, but I believe that self is entirely self determined. Self is also entirely subjective. Self is whatever you choose to believe about you. Self is not spirit or soul. Self is the big ME. Self is what asks the question..."what is self?".

When you say the self is entirely self determined what is the self…that doing the determining or that which is determined?

i.e when the Self describes what it perceives itself to be is that not an object in its awareness.

I think your last sentence goes near to holding the answer.

The question is “Who am I?”

I think self is the reflection of itself. Self seems to be what you think it is, not what it is.

who is thinking? Who is observing what you think yourself to be? Can the observer obsere itself? Can a sword cut itself?

A river changes all the time. Does a river exist.

It is still made up of water. Does the water change?

A person is made of organic chemicals. Do the chemicals change?
A river is defined by it's course, and it's banks. The banks change.

Is an observer reactiving to what it observes?

Is the observer the reaction?

Can you put your elbow in your ear?

Mu?

An observer is both reacting to what it observes, and is the reaction from the observation.

[bernee51]

I might be entirely wrong, but I believe that self is entirely self determined. Self is also entirely subjective. Self is whatever you choose to believe about you. Self is not spirit or soul. Self is the big ME. Self is what asks the question..."what is self?".

When you say the self is entirely self determined what is the self…that doing the determining or that which is determined?

i.e when the Self describes what it perceives itself to be is that not an object in its awareness.

I think your last sentence goes near to holding the answer.

The question is “Who am I?”

I think self is the reflection of itself. Self seems to be what you think it is, not what it is.

who is thinking? Who is observing what you think yourself to be? Can the observer obsere itself? Can a sword cut itself?

A river changes all the time. Does a river exist.

It is still made up of water. Does the water change?

A person is made of organic chemicals. Do the chemicals change?
A river is defined by it's course, and it's banks. The banks change.

A river can be anything from fast moving through rapids to a meandering across a plain - if a river was aware it would notice this, But its essence is still a river. we What Plato would have called an 'idea'. The observed changes are 'form'

The Self, root consciousness, is unchanging and the same in us all. How that manifests as the individual self is what we see and how we describe ourselves. I is an object in our awareness. It is also illusory.

An observer is both reacting to what it observes, and is the reaction from the observation.

But who is the observer? Is the observer the observed?

[Curious]

I might be entirely wrong, but I believe that self is entirely self determined.

Sounds a bit circular.

It does doesn't it? Maybe question and answer validate each other.

[Greatest I Am]

I might be entirely wrong, but I believe that self is entirely self determined.

Sounds a bit circular.

It does doesn't it? Maybe question and answer validate each other.

I would disagree.
We are the product of all that we come into contact with.
If I am born the son of a miner I will have a certain vocabulary of colorful speech shall we say.
If I am born the son of a layer, my speech will likely be less so.
A child is a blank sheet on which we all draw. With age he or she can be aware of their personality and traits but we are all slaves to our God given natures.
how we end up is determined by the sub group we belong to.

Regards
DL

[Curious]

I might be entirely wrong, but I believe that self is entirely self determined.

Sounds a bit circular.

It does doesn't it? Maybe question and answer validate each other.

I would disagree.
We are the product of all that we come into contact with.
If I am born the son of a miner I will have a certain vocabulary of colorful speech shall we say.
If I am born the son of a layer, my speech will likely be less so.
A child is a blank sheet on which we all draw. With age he or she can be aware of their personality and traits but we are all slaves to our God given natures.
how we end up is determined by the sub group we belong to.

Regards
DL

While our environment plays a large part in what we are, we are more a product of the perception of this than the reality.

[sledheavy]

I have to agree, both ideas tend to play a huge role on our individual devices.

[Greatest I Am]

I have to agree, both ideas tend to play a huge role on our individual devices.

Ditto.
We are what we are. What we do is what others see and may be ultimately more important.


Regards
DL