Head to head about free will

[achilles12604]

Ok I am actually tired of answering the debate about man having the ability to choose. So I am presenting a general challenge. Anyone who really honestly doesn't think that mankind has the ability to choose when faced with a decision accept this challenge and we can set it up for a head to head debate.

[McCulloch]

Ok I am actually tired of answering the debate about man having the ability to choose. So I am presenting a general challenge. Anyone who really honestly doesn't think that mankind has the ability to choose when faced with a decision accept this challenge and we can set it up for a head to head debate.

Humans clearly have the ability to choose when faced with a decision. So do Chimpanzees, Gorillas, Monkeys, Lemurs, Rabbits, Snakes, Frogs, Trout, Octopus, Jellyfish, Sea Worms, Amoeba, Viruses, self replicating RNA ...

Or not. Somewhere down the line, one is faced with the apparent fact that the degree of ability to choose becomes non-existent or infinitesimal with decreased complexity of life.

If you were to reframe the question as "There is reason to believe that humans have the ability to freely choose when making decisions." I would be willing to take the negative.

So what in your mind is the difference between :

1) Humans have the ability to freely choose when making decisions

and

2) "mankind has the ability to choose when faced with a decision"

The big difference is the word free. Humans and others choose between available options. It is my view that that choice cannot be described as being free. Our choices are entirely and completely determined by environment, genetics, neurology, chemistry, physics, quantum mechanics and perhaps a few other factors. We cannot determine or calculate what a particular human's choice might be any more than we can accurately predict the weather eight weeks in advance, but it is determined.

[achilles12604]

Ok I am actually tired of answering the debate about man having the ability to choose. So I am presenting a general challenge. Anyone who really honestly doesn't think that mankind has the ability to choose when faced with a decision accept this challenge and we can set it up for a head to head debate.

Humans clearly have the ability to choose when faced with a decision. So do Chimpanzees, Gorillas, Monkeys, Lemurs, Rabbits, Snakes, Frogs, Trout, Octopus, Jellyfish, Sea Worms, Amoeba, Viruses, self replicating RNA ...

Or not. Somewhere down the line, one is faced with the apparent fact that the degree of ability to choose becomes non-existent or infinitesimal with decreased complexity of life.

If you were to reframe the question as "There is reason to believe that humans have the ability to freely choose when making decisions." I would be willing to take the negative.

So what in your mind is the difference between :

1) Humans have the ability to freely choose when making decisions

and

2) "mankind has the ability to choose when faced with a decision"

The big difference is the word free. Humans and others choose between available options. It is my view that that choice cannot be described as being free. Our choices are entirely and completely determined by environment, genetics, neurology, chemistry, physics, quantum mechanics and perhaps a few other factors. We cannot determine or calculate what a particular human's choice might be any more than we can accurately predict the weather eight weeks in advance, but it is determined.

Would you be of the opinion that given a particular person in a particular set of circumstances, if this person came upon something which forced him to make a decision, he would always make one choice and never take a different path regardless of how many other options there were?

[Nick_A]

Ok I am actually tired of answering the debate about man having the ability to choose. So I am presenting a general challenge. Anyone who really honestly doesn't think that mankind has the ability to choose when faced with a decision accept this challenge and we can set it up for a head to head debate.

Humans clearly have the ability to choose when faced with a decision. So do Chimpanzees, Gorillas, Monkeys, Lemurs, Rabbits, Snakes, Frogs, Trout, Octopus, Jellyfish, Sea Worms, Amoeba, Viruses, self replicating RNA ...

Or not. Somewhere down the line, one is faced with the apparent fact that the degree of ability to choose becomes non-existent or infinitesimal with decreased complexity of life.

If you were to reframe the question as "There is reason to believe that humans have the ability to freely choose when making decisions." I would be willing to take the negative.

So what in your mind is the difference between :

1) Humans have the ability to freely choose when making decisions

and

2) "mankind has the ability to choose when faced with a decision"

The big difference is the word free. Humans and others choose between available options. It is my view that that choice cannot be described as being free. Our choices are entirely and completely determined by environment, genetics, neurology, chemistry, physics, quantum mechanics and perhaps a few other factors. We cannot determine or calculate what a particular human's choice might be any more than we can accurately predict the weather eight weeks in advance, but it is determined.

Would you be of the opinion that given a particular person in a particular set of circumstances, if this person came upon something which forced him to make a decision, he would always make one choice and never take a different path regardless of how many other options there were?

There was a movie about this very same question a while back called "Groundhog Day" A reporter was captured in a situation in which Groundhog Day kept repeating. It was only through the eventul conscious awareness of his situation which he didn't have previously that allowed him to eventually have the choice to continue or begin to acquire freedom of choice. But in the beginning because he was what he was everything repeated in the same way in response to the same external stimuli.

This is the same idea as plato's cave. Lacking the awareness of the human condition we lack the conscious ability to make any change possible. Since we are as we are, everything is as it is.

[McCulloch]

Would you be of the opinion that given a particular person in a particular set of circumstances, if this person came upon something which forced him to make a decision, he would always make one choice and never take a different path regardless of how many other options there were?

I am of the opinion that a particular person in exactly the same set of circumstances would always make the same choice. However, the exact same set of circumstances cannot ever arise since part of the set of circumstances would be the memory of the first time the decision was made in the second instance. However, if you were to go back in time, to live your life over again, without any memories of how you did it the first time, you would make the same choices.

[achilles12604]

Would you be of the opinion that given a particular person in a particular set of circumstances, if this person came upon something which forced him to make a decision, he would always make one choice and never take a different path regardless of how many other options there were?

I am of the opinion that a particular person in exactly the same set of circumstances would always make the same choice. However, the exact same set of circumstances cannot ever arise since part of the set of circumstances would be the memory of the first time the decision was made in the second instance. However, if you were to go back in time, to live your life over again, without any memories of how you did it the first time, you would make the same choices.

If this is the case, then you have a side which is non-falsifiable don't you? Much like the YEC claiming that anything that seems old is that way because God made it to look that way.

[McCulloch]

I am of the opinion that a particular person in exactly the same set of circumstances would always make the same choice. However, the exact same set of circumstances cannot ever arise since part of the set of circumstances would be the memory of the first time the decision was made in the second instance. However, if you were to go back in time, to live your life over again, without any memories of how you did it the first time, you would make the same choices.

If this is the case, then you have a side which is non-falsifiable don't you? Much like the YEC claiming that anything that seems old is that way because God made it to look that way.

My opinion, as stated has been correctly identified as a non-falsifiable conclusion derived from my point-of-view, and thus an inappropriate subject for debate.

The question I would think is suitable would be, "There is reason to believe that humans have the ability to freely choose when making decisions." You would affirm, I would deny.

[achilles12604]

I am of the opinion that a particular person in exactly the same set of circumstances would always make the same choice. However, the exact same set of circumstances cannot ever arise since part of the set of circumstances would be the memory of the first time the decision was made in the second instance. However, if you were to go back in time, to live your life over again, without any memories of how you did it the first time, you would make the same choices.

If this is the case, then you have a side which is non-falsifiable don't you? Much like the YEC claiming that anything that seems old is that way because God made it to look that way.

My opinion, as stated has been correctly identified as a non-falsifiable conclusion derived from my point-of-view, and thus an inappropriate subject for debate.

The question I would think is suitable would be, "There is reason to believe that humans have the ability to freely choose when making decisions." You would affirm, I would deny.

I accept.

[McCulloch]

I accept.

Alrighty then. Let's see where it goes.