Is Jesus Good? Is Satan Evil?

Simon_Peter · Post by **Simon_Peter** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:35 pm

Here are some facts:

We as humans are imperfect
We have limited perception
We have limited knowledge

What I dont know is this:

Is Satan, Evil?
Is Jesus, Good?

I need to understand the meaning of Good and Evil. So when I talk about Good and Evil, I understand what it is. Until I know these two things, I will not know if Jesus is Good, or if Satan is bad.

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:41 pm

onefaith wrote:.... is why it is bad in your opinion that God has set up moral standards that he wants to be kept. I define good as what God says good is, and the same with evil.

Why is it your god who gets to define good and evil and not one of the other gods?

Confused · Post by **Confused** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:14 am

onefaith wrote:Ok I'm pretty sure I understand what you all are saying. And I agree to some extent. Nobody should force their own morals on someone else. So the real issue here then, to keep up the debate, is why it is bad in your opinion that God has set up moral standards that he wants to be kept. I define good as what God says good is, and the same with evil.

If no one should force their own morals onto someone else, why is it ok for God to do it?

And I am unsure exactly what you mean by saying you define good as what God says is good, etc.... God seems to change His mind a lot about what is good and what is not. The OT is full of things that were good and contradictions to those as well. But then I guess God decided that what was good during the period of the OT wasn't really good anymore, so He sent His Son to die to change what is good and what is bad, hence the NT. Is this right?

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:35 am

Confused wrote:
onefaith wrote:Ok I'm pretty sure I understand what you all are saying. And I agree to some extent. Nobody should force their own morals on someone else. So the real issue here then, to keep up the debate, is why it is bad in your opinion that God has set up moral standards that he wants to be kept. I define good as what God says good is, and the same with evil.
If no one should force their own morals onto someone else, why is it ok for God to do it?

And I am unsure exactly what you mean by saying you define good as what God says is good, etc.... God seems to change His mind a lot about what is good and what is not. The OT is full of things that were good and contradictions to those as well. But then I guess God decided that what was good during the period of the OT wasn't really good anymore, so He sent His Son to die to change what is good and what is bad, hence the NT. Is this right?

Well, the OT is full of stories and history of people who just don't get it.. and keep on not doing behavior that is correct.

onefaith · Post by **onefaith** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:30 pm

Why is it your god who gets to define good and evil and not one of the other gods?

If a person believes in another God, then they will believe what their god says. I believe in my God, and I believe He is the only God. And I believe what he says is true. That's me, I'm not trying to force anybody else to believe that.

onefaith · Post by **onefaith** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:33 pm

Confused wrote:
onefaith wrote:Ok I'm pretty sure I understand what you all are saying. And I agree to some extent. Nobody should force their own morals on someone else. So the real issue here then, to keep up the debate, is why it is bad in your opinion that God has set up moral standards that he wants to be kept. I define good as what God says good is, and the same with evil.
If no one should force their own morals onto someone else, why is it ok for God to do it?

And I am unsure exactly what you mean by saying you define good as what God says is good, etc.... God seems to change His mind a lot about what is good and what is not. The OT is full of things that were good and contradictions to those as well. But then I guess God decided that what was good during the period of the OT wasn't really good anymore, so He sent His Son to die to change what is good and what is bad, hence the NT. Is this right?

Not exactly. In the old testament, the way of cleansing yourself of sin was by killing a goat or lamb whenever you sinned. Either that didn't work for us humans anymore, or something else happened, but God changed it so that we only need to believe that Jesus died for our sins to be washed away. There was nothing wrong with the old way of doing things, unless you strongly disagree with killing animals, which I also don't really like, but the new way is better (and easier)

Homicidal_Cherry53 · Post by **Homicidal_Cherry53** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:33 pm

onefaith wrote:
Why is it your god who gets to define good and evil and not one of the other gods?
If a person believes in another God, then they will believe what their god says. I believe in my God, and I believe He is the only God. And I believe what he says is true. That's me, I'm not trying to force anybody else to believe that.

I want to know why you think God has the right to create moral absolutes. Why is his view any more valid than any others?

Beto · Post by **Beto** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:34 pm

onefaith wrote:And I believe what he says is true.

No, you believe what other people say your god says is true. Or do you talk to "God"?

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:42 pm

onefaith wrote:
Why is it your god who gets to define good and evil and not one of the other gods?
If a person believes in another God, then they will believe what their god says.

And if they don't believe in a god at all...?

I consider myself a moral person. My guiding principle in life is to strive for a life lived in mindful awareness of the happiness and well being of all.

Any thoughts on where my morality might originate?

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:58 pm

onefaith wrote:
Why is it your god who gets to define good and evil and not one of the other gods?
If a person believes in another God, then they will believe what their god says. I believe in my God, and I believe He is the only God. And I believe what he says is true. That's me, I'm not trying to force anybody else to believe that.

How do you know what 'he' says? There seems to be a number of contradictions in the books that people claim 'are the word of god'.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:12 pm

onefaith wrote:
Confused wrote:
onefaith wrote:Ok I'm pretty sure I understand what you all are saying. And I agree to some extent. Nobody should force their own morals on someone else. So the real issue here then, to keep up the debate, is why it is bad in your opinion that God has set up moral standards that he wants to be kept. I define good as what God says good is, and the same with evil.
If no one should force their own morals onto someone else, why is it ok for God to do it?

And I am unsure exactly what you mean by saying you define good as what God says is good, etc.... God seems to change His mind a lot about what is good and what is not. The OT is full of things that were good and contradictions to those as well. But then I guess God decided that what was good during the period of the OT wasn't really good anymore, so He sent His Son to die to change what is good and what is bad, hence the NT. Is this right?
Not exactly. In the old testament, the way of cleansing yourself of sin was by killing a goat or lamb whenever you sinned. Either that didn't work for us humans anymore, or something else happened, but God changed it so that we only need to believe that Jesus died for our sins to be washed away. There was nothing wrong with the old way of doing things, unless you strongly disagree with killing animals, which I also don't really like, but the new way is better (and easier)

No, you most certainly have the Jewish faith totally wrong. There are many examples that show that animal sacrifice was not needed, nor even preferred.

See Hosea 14:3, and I Kings 8:46-50. Repentence and fasting is also accepted (see Jonah 3).

While there were some sins that was traditional, that wasn't the only way. Prayer, repentance, sacrifice of cereal were all accepted. Indeed, there are passages in what you call the Old Testament that say God does not want animal sacrifice.