The purpose of the "Gay" Crusade

[TheQuestioner]

When i was about ten years of age i attended church on a regular basis. I remember vividly that i few times in sunday school i was taught that being LGBT was horridly wrong, and also that Muslims were sad people because they put so much time and effort into the "wrong religion". Now I tried hard to believe this, but in the end even as a ten year old i couldn't, i couldn't see what was wrong with being gay, and this has got me wondering. What is the purpose of targeting and discriminating homosexuals, what would it achieve for any church base except alienate a portion of their church body? and lastly Why isn't this energy spent on something that does not alienate people and can universally be considered bad, like adultery?


please help me out it confuses me so much at times.


sorry if a similar thread exists i'm new here

[Goat]

Where did Paul mention a fertility religion in that context? He condemns homosexual activity, not other religions.

1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; that they are
1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Thus , we see people 'when they knew god, and became ''wane in their imaginings' , and became 'ex-Christians.

And he then continues on to describe the rituals in some of the fertility cults of Rome at the time.

So what exactly do you believe the Bible's perspective on homosexuality to be? Are you saying that there is a discrepancy between the new and old testament on the issue?

I suspect that it changed over time... the Leviticus entry , according to Rashi, is specifically talking about a specific form of male sex. The person who wrote about 1/4 of the sexual restrictions seems to have a hangup about any sex that is not for procreation. However, the specific restriction is talking about anal sex. You also will not see any restriction with female lesbian relations, but rather a concern about 'wasting the seed'.

[East of Eden]

Where did Paul mention a fertility religion in that context? He condemns homosexual activity, not other religions.

1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; that they are
1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Thus , we see people 'when they knew god, and became ''wane in their imaginings' , and became 'ex-Christians.

And he then continues on to describe the rituals in some of the fertility cults of Rome at the time.

I disagree, but speaking of what some used to be, see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (English Standard Version):

9Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:(A) neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And(B) such were some of you. But(C) you were washed,(D) you were sanctified,(E) you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

[East of Eden]

You also will not see any restriction with female lesbian relations, but rather a concern about 'wasting the seed'.

Wrong, see my post #14.

Generally speaking, the Bible promotes sex as between a man and a woman in a life-long marriage relationship.

[Goat]

I disagree, but speaking of what some used to be, see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (English Standard Version):

9Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:(A) neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And(B) such were some of you. But(C) you were washed,(D) you were sanctified,(E) you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1Corinthians 6:9 and 1Timothy 1:10
At issue are two words: malakee (found only in 1Corinthians) and arsenokeeteh, which is in both verses. Tradition assumes a homosexual meaning of the words. Actual study reveals that in its use there, malakee means "morally weak" or, perhaps, "immoral persons". (The translation "effeminate" in the King James Version was an archaic one and, in any case, did not imply homosexuality in Greek--as it does not today.)

Arsenokeeteh means to refer directly to cult prostitution, again. Such practices were common both in Corinth and Ephesus (where Timothy was). It clearly refers, in this use and later uses in other writings, to prostitutes who engaged in both homosexual and heterosexual cult practice. Neither of these words can possible be translated to mean "homosexual" or any similar distortion of their meaning.

[Goat]

You also will not see any restriction with female lesbian relations, but rather a concern about 'wasting the seed'.

Wrong, see my post #14.

Generally speaking, the Bible promotes sex as between a man and a woman in a life-long marriage relationship.

I should clarify. You will not see any restriction in women on women sex in the Old Testament. There are some passages in the New Testament that have been interpreted that way.. but not exclusively in that manner.


As for your post 14.. you are making some assumptions, and one of those assumptions that 'unnatural lusts' mean between women.. .. yet that is not clearly defined by that passage.

[Cathar1950]

Paul is talking about people who used to be Christians, and have fallen back to Paganism.. he talks about the sexual rituals that some paganistic religions do.

So, what Paul is complaining about is not homosexual behavior, but the Christians returning to a fertility religion that was common in Rome at the time.

Where did Paul mention a fertility religion in that context? He condemns homosexual activity, not other religions.

He really isn't condemning homosexual activity, he is condemning those that have fallen and their punishment is that God gives them over.
It makes Paul look even more crazy.
But we are talking about Paul here and I recall that he was telling some to leave their wives or act like they didn't have them as well as not marring.
How is this crank's opinion relevant to the rights of adults today?

[Tuff]

Because the Bible says so. The Bible is the ultimate Christian (sometimes the only one depending on the sect) moral authority so believers need nothing but the Bible to justify their actions. The Bible says to stone homosexuals so Christians have no problem discriminating.

This is part of it.

The other part is some people just think it's gross. and it tends to be more of a problem with gay guys than girls. To a lot of guys - girls making out is ok. Guys doing it a big NO. There's countless things like music videos and spots in movies with brief girl on girl action. Guys doing it is far more rare.

It's more or less how society has evolved. Girls are the more gentle, feminine (obviously) gender, and them dancing together or calling each other "girlfriend" is ok. Guys doing that is not "macho" or "rugged" and therefore..."quite gay" essentially.

Someone may disagree, but I know I am dead on with this.

[East of Eden]

I disagree, but speaking of what some used to be, see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (English Standard Version):

9Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:(A) neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And(B) such were some of you. But(C) you were washed,(D) you were sanctified,(E) you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1Corinthians 6:9 and 1Timothy 1:10
At issue are two words: malakee (found only in 1Corinthians) and arsenokeeteh, which is in both verses. Tradition assumes a homosexual meaning of the words. Actual study reveals that in its use there, malakee means "morally weak" or, perhaps, "immoral persons". (The translation "effeminate" in the King James Version was an archaic one and, in any case, did not imply homosexuality in Greek--as it does not today.)

Arsenokeeteh means to refer directly to cult prostitution, again. Such practices were common both in Corinth and Ephesus (where Timothy was). It clearly refers, in this use and later uses in other writings, to prostitutes who engaged in both homosexual and heterosexual cult practice. Neither of these words can possible be translated to mean "homosexual" or any similar distortion of their meaning.

Jesus often condemns "pornia" which we translate as "immorality." The Greek word includes both unfaithfulness in marriage and homosexuality. "Arsenokoite" means a sodomite.

[Goat]

I disagree, but speaking of what some used to be, see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (English Standard Version):

9Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:(A) neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And(B) such were some of you. But(C) you were washed,(D) you were sanctified,(E) you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1Corinthians 6:9 and 1Timothy 1:10
At issue are two words: malakee (found only in 1Corinthians) and arsenokeeteh, which is in both verses. Tradition assumes a homosexual meaning of the words. Actual study reveals that in its use there, malakee means "morally weak" or, perhaps, "immoral persons". (The translation "effeminate" in the King James Version was an archaic one and, in any case, did not imply homosexuality in Greek--as it does not today.)

Arsenokeeteh means to refer directly to cult prostitution, again. Such practices were common both in Corinth and Ephesus (where Timothy was). It clearly refers, in this use and later uses in other writings, to prostitutes who engaged in both homosexual and heterosexual cult practice. Neither of these words can possible be translated to mean "homosexual" or any similar distortion of their meaning.

Jesus often condemns "pornia" which we translate as "immorality." The Greek word includes both unfaithfulness in marriage and homosexuality. "Arsenokoite" means a sodomite.

That's it's modern interpretation.. it is not as well defined in the 1st century. It's most common application was the habit of older men being with younger boys.

[JoeyKnothead]

Jesus often condemns "pornia" which we translate as "immorality." The Greek word includes both unfaithfulness in marriage and homosexuality. "Arsenokoite" means a sodomite.

So it may be claimed. I remind the observer we have no actual recorded messages, or actual writings from the Jesus character. All we have is hearsay at best.