Do you have the hope of going to heaven

[JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?



* My question is for people that do believe that a God exists, since I presume that those that do not believe in God do believe he exists anywhere and therefore there is no "heaven" where God is.

[tam]

[Replying to post 238 by OnceConvinced]

YOU said that those certain verses "screamed trinity" to you, even though there were only two. So saying that "two" is a TRINITY is as unreasonable as someone saying the trinity means "1 X 1 X 1." Your arguments don't add up. Pun intended.

But far be it from me to suggest to anyone that they don't have the right to believe whatever they choose to believe.

I guess the holy spirit revealed different things to me as a Christian than he does to you and Tam now. But I have come to expect that when it comes to the holy spirit.

Did the holy spirit reveal that to you or did you learn it from men?


Peace to you!

tam, let's say OC says the Holy Spirit revealed the trinity to him. What can you do or say to convince ME otherwise?

I don't think I will have to say a word on that score, Rik.

Now, let's say OC says he learned about the Holy Spirit from other men,

Okay...

and that those other men say they had a revelation from the Spirit/God/Jesus/whatever. What can you do or say to convince ME otherwise?

Why would it be up to me to convince you otherwise? Rather than up to them to convince you of their claim?


If they said such a thing to me, I would hold up what they said (even if they claim they received it in a revelation) against the Light that is Christ. I might spell that out here... but that is really all I could suggest that you do also. Take it to Christ. What did (and/or does) He say?





Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

[Replying to post 268 by tam]



[center]
Another false dichotomy.[/center]

Did the holy spirit reveal that to you or did you learn it from men?

You forgot that he might have invented it himself, all on his very own without any help from anyone.

That would be a third option.

Yes, that is an option as well.



Peace.

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 87 by Claire Evans]



[center]A challenge[/center]

Santa Claus is not a supernatural being.

Consider yourself officially challenged to back up that assertion or drop it.

Cheers.

Well, Satan Claus is actually the Bishop St Nicholas. Of course he wasn't supernatural but, according to the story for kids, he was a mere man who could make his sleigh fly. That may be a supernatural act but that doesn't mean Santa Claus is supernatural.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 273 by Claire Evans]

Well, Satan Claus

Wow. Just wow. Satan claus?

Satan Claus is actually the Bishop St Nicholas.

So because you can trace him to an actual historical figure, you disbelieve the supernatural stories about him.

We can more or less trace the Son of God to a Jewish carpenter who wandered Jerusalem as a teacher.

Of course he wasn't supernatural

Of course. It's a given. No need for you to prove he wasn't supernatural.

but, according to the story for kids, he was a mere man who could make his sleigh fly.

There are adults who also believe the story. Also, do you disbelieve the story because according to you, it has Santa making the reindeer fly as opposed to someone or something else?

That may be a supernatural act but that doesn't mean Santa Claus is supernatural.

Of course, of course. The woman's daughter getting up after dying, right after Jesus says to the mother, that is a supernatural act, but it doesn't mean Jesus is supernatural...right?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 273 by Claire Evans]


[center]God's just a guy with lots of magic powers.[/center]

Santa Claus is not a supernatural being.

Consider yourself officially challenged to back up that assertion or drop it.

Well, Satan Claus is actually the Bishop St Nicholas.

I'm not talking about that one.
I'm talking about the one who lives at the North Pole.

You know, the magic one.

It's very similar to this guy "God" who lives in heaven... Different guy, different location, but the same kind of idea. Santa and God are both magicians who live in hard to find places.

Of course he wasn't supernatural but, according to the story for kids, he was a mere man who could make his sleigh fly. That may be a supernatural act but that doesn't mean Santa Claus is supernatural.

By that standard, the god you believe in isn't supernatural either.

Just because some guy can create an entire universe by supernatural means, doesn't imply ( using your definition ) that the guy is in any way "supernatural".

All this "God" talk could be about "Floyd, the universe maker".

God ( OR FLOYD ) is like a magician who can, I suppose, ALSO make his sleigh fly in the sky if he has a mind to.

Or just about any other magic trick.. God seems to be QUITE the powerful magician, or whatever you want to call him.

I am using the term "fairy" these days.

Not supernatural, though.
And neither is "Santa", right?


Two magic guys, one called "Santa", one called "God", that's it.
Apparently, God has more magic than Santa.

Big shot in magical fairy land, that God.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 273 by Claire Evans]


[center]
Satan Claus[/center]

Well, Satan Claus is actually the Bishop St Nicholas.

Is that a typo or a "Freudian slip"?

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 273 by Claire Evans]

Well, Satan Claus

Wow. Just wow. Satan claus?

Satan Claus is actually the Bishop St Nicholas.

So because you can trace him to an actual historical figure, you disbelieve the supernatural stories about him.

We can more or less trace the Son of God to a Jewish carpenter who wandered Jerusalem as a teacher.

No adult has truly claimed Santa Claus, as in the children's story, exists unlike claims about Jesus. In fact, Jesus was accused of black magic because of His supernatural acts.

but, according to the story for kids, he was a mere man who could make his sleigh fly.

There are adults who also believe the story. Also, do you disbelieve the story because according to you, it has Santa making the reindeer fly as opposed to someone or something else?

Really? Like people who have their mental faculties? I disbelieve it because there are no grounds to believe it.

That may be a supernatural act but that doesn't mean Santa Claus is supernatural.

Of course, of course. The woman's daughter getting up after dying, right after Jesus says to the mother, that is a supernatural act, but it doesn't mean Jesus is supernatural...right?

Santa Claus is not God incarnate.

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 273 by Claire Evans]


[center]
Satan Claus[/center]

Well, Satan Claus is actually the Bishop St Nicholas.

Is that a typo or a "Freudian slip"?

Lol. Just because Santa Claus actually exists in the form of the Bishop, mythical stories have come his life. The kid's version of Santa Claus doesn't exist.

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 273 by Claire Evans]


[center]God's just a guy with lots of magic powers.[/center]

Santa Claus is not a supernatural being.

Consider yourself officially challenged to back up that assertion or drop it.

Well, Satan Claus is actually the Bishop St Nicholas.

I'm not talking about that one.
I'm talking about the one who lives at the North Pole.

You know, the magic one.

It's very similar to this guy "God" who lives in heaven... Different guy, different location, but the same kind of idea. Santa and God are both magicians who live in hard to find places.

Nobody claims to communicate with Santa through prayer. Unless they are delusional with mental problems. Santa is meant to be a physical being, not a spirit like God. God lives in heaven which is not of this world, Santa lives at the North Pole. The premises are not the same.

Of course he wasn't supernatural but, according to the story for kids, he was a mere man who could make his sleigh fly. That may be a supernatural act but that doesn't mean Santa Claus is supernatural.

By that standard, the god you believe in isn't supernatural either.

Are you referring to Jesus? Yes, He was human but He is God incarnate.

Just because some guy can create an entire universe by supernatural means, doesn't imply ( using your definition ) that the guy is in any way "supernatural".

All this "God" talk could be about "Floyd, the universe maker".



God ( OR FLOYD ) is like a magician who can, I suppose, ALSO make his sleigh fly in the sky if he has a mind to.

Or just about any other magic trick.. God seems to be QUITE the powerful magician, or whatever you want to call him.

I am using the term "fairy" these days.

Not supernatural, though.
And neither is "Santa", right?



Two magic guys, one called "Santa", one called "God", that's it.
Apparently, God has more magic than Santa.

Big shot in magical fairy land, that God.

But God is not a "guy". He does not possess a human body. I'm assuming you are referring to Floyd as physical. If a being has a physical body and does supernatural things, it is due to the aid of supernatural beings like spirits.

[OnceConvinced]

Take the example of a human. Say me. I am Once Convinced. Let's say that I have
1) A spirit
2) a soul
3) a personality
4) an ego

Let's look at the spirit. It is me!
The soul. It is me!
The personality. It is me!
An ego. It is me!

So I am all four things and all these things are completely me.

Your spirit/soul/personality/ego... are not different persons in you. They are not persons at all, and they do not have different names (as Christ and God have).

God = the Father = Jahveh
Christ = the Son = Jaheshua

They are one (united), but they are their own persons; their own beings.

That is why I think that perhaps referring to them as separate "persons" is not a good analogy. I see them as being all parts of one person, just like I see spirit, soul, personality, ego all as one person.

It's just that these separate parts can work independently.

Perhaps you have a different definition of trinity then. There are a few out there. The most common one describes three persons in one god.

I believed as a Christian was that the New Testament in particular showed a very definite picture of the trinity. Perhaps the holy spirit has not revealed this to you as he did with me?

Did the holy spirit reveal that to you or did you learn it from men?

I was taught about the trinity in church yes, but it was reading the bible where the holy spirit showed me it to be true. The bible simply shouted out trinity to me. I'll put that down to the holy spirit. (well I would do if I was still a Christian)