Do you really care that I am going to hell?

[Cmass]

I don't think you really believe I will fry in Hell for being an Atheist. I don't think you really truly believe any of your non-believing family will either. I think deep down, you know it just isn't true.

If you do believe they will all fry and are not doing absolutely everything in your power to stop it, I would suggest that you are a very cold, dispassionate person. If you really believed your dearly beloved mother was going to burn in hell right next to Cmass and Charles Manson then you would stop at nothing to convince her to accept Jesus. You would not just gently encourage, you would be emotionally and perhaps even physically engaged on a daily and hourly basis. You most certainly would not be reading this silly OP right now. Not if you REALLY cared.

Think about it. If you saw your mother being beaten by someone on the street, would you stop to help save her? Would you put your own life at risk to keep her from drowning? Is there anything you would not do to help her? OK, what about eternal torture in hell? Doesn't this concern you? What about all the other people in your life who are going to hell? Doesn't this leave you feeling devastated? If I believed there was a hell and that so many people would be going - especially any of my friends or family - I would be in constant agony myself and would devote my life to stopping it. Or, I would be numb.

Does your knowledge that so many people will be in eternal torture bother you very much on a daily basis?

This OP came about after reading commentary by some of our more conservative Christian friends in here. Some seem to have no real problem with all us atheists burning in hell forever. Granted, there are probably some personal anger issues involved but still, I have always been uneasy with how casual many Christians are when it comes to discussing eternal damnation. Some get more upset over running over a kitty than the eternal torture of their best friend.

Nonetheless, I give most the benefit of the doubt: I don't think they are really that cold. I just don't think they really believe as much in the hell concept as they report.

[Biker]

"Christ" is not god either. It is just one of the standard glorifications that the Roman and Egyptian tradition did, making an ordinary man into a God.

<chuckle>

THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST

1. Jesus existed in the beginning (John 1:1; Philip 2:6; Rev. 19:13; Micah 5:2).
2. He was with God (John 1:1).
3. He is God, the Son (John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8, 10; I John 5:20).
4. He is God manifest in the flesh (John 20:28; I Tim. 3:16; Col. 2:9; Acts 20:28; Heb. 1:8).
5. He is God foretold (Isaiah 9:6; Psalm 45:6).
6. He is Immanuel, God with us (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23).
7. He is the true God (I John 5:20 with Titus 2:13; Romans 9:5).
8. He is the great God (Titus 2:13).
9. He is God our Savior (II Peter 1:1).
10. He existed in the form of God before His incarnation and was equal with God the Father (Philippians 2:5-7).
11. He is the only wise God (Jude 25).
12. He is omnipotent over disease. (Matthew 8:1-4; Luke 4:39)
13. He is omnipotent over demons. (Matthew 8:16-17; Luke 4:35)
14. He is omnipotent over nature. ((Matthew 8:26)
15. He is omnipotent over death. (Luke 7:14-15; John 11:25)
16. He is omniscient, knowing the hearts of the Pharisees. (Matthew 12:25;
Luke 5:22; 6:8; 7:39-40)
17. He knew the thoughts of the scribes. (Matthew 9:3-4)
18. He knew the history of the Samaritan woman. (John 4:24)
19. He is omnipresent. (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; 14:20)
20. He was worshiped as God by the angels (Hebrews 1:6); worshiped as
God by the wise men (Matthew 2:2); worshiped as God by the shepherds
(Luke 2:15); worshiped as God by a ruler (Matthew 9:18); worshiped as
God by Thomas (John 20:28); worshiped as God by the apostles (Matthew
14:33; 28:9).
21. He forgives sins. (Mark 2:5)
22. He saves. (Matthew 18:11; John 10:28).
23. He judges. (John 5:22)
24. Paul, Peter, Jude, James, and John called Him God. (Galatians 2:20; 1 Peter
3:22; Jude 25; James 2:1; I John 5:20; Revelation 1:18; 19:16)
25. He is God's Son, who was sent to bring us eternal life. (John 3:16)
26. He arose from death in the flesh (John 20:26-28; Luke 24:39-43; I John 4:2-3).
27. One with the Father (John 10:30).

27 lovely reasons!

Biker

[Confused]

"Christ" is not god either. It is just one of the standard glorifications that the Roman and Egyptian tradition did, making an ordinary man into a God.

<chuckle>

THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST

1. Jesus existed in the beginning (John 1:1; Philip 2:6; Rev. 19:13; Micah 5:2).
2. He was with God (John 1:1).
3. He is God, the Son (John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8, 10; I John 5:20).
4. He is God manifest in the flesh (John 20:28; I Tim. 3:16; Col. 2:9; Acts 20:28; Heb. 1:8).
5. He is God foretold (Isaiah 9:6; Psalm 45:6).
6. He is Immanuel, God with us (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23).
7. He is the true God (I John 5:20 with Titus 2:13; Romans 9:5).
8. He is the great God (Titus 2:13).
9. He is God our Savior (II Peter 1:1).
10. He existed in the form of God before His incarnation and was equal with God the Father (Philippians 2:5-7).
11. He is the only wise God (Jude 25).
12. He is omnipotent over disease. (Matthew 8:1-4; Luke 4:39)
13. He is omnipotent over demons. (Matthew 8:16-17; Luke 4:35)
14. He is omnipotent over nature. ((Matthew 8:26)
15. He is omnipotent over death. (Luke 7:14-15; John 11:25)
16. He is omniscient, knowing the hearts of the Pharisees. (Matthew 12:25;
Luke 5:22; 6:8; 7:39-40)
17. He knew the thoughts of the scribes. (Matthew 9:3-4)
18. He knew the history of the Samaritan woman. (John 4:24)
19. He is omnipresent. (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; 14:20)
20. He was worshiped as God by the angels (Hebrews 1:6); worshiped as
God by the wise men (Matthew 2:2); worshiped as God by the shepherds
(Luke 2:15); worshiped as God by a ruler (Matthew 9:18); worshiped as
God by Thomas (John 20:28); worshiped as God by the apostles (Matthew
14:33; 28:9).
21. He forgives sins. (Mark 2:5)
22. He saves. (Matthew 18:11; John 10:28).
23. He judges. (John 5:22)
24. Paul, Peter, Jude, James, and John called Him God. (Galatians 2:20; 1 Peter
3:22; Jude 25; James 2:1; I John 5:20; Revelation 1:18; 19:16)
25. He is God's Son, who was sent to bring us eternal life. (John 3:16)
26. He arose from death in the flesh (John 20:26-28; Luke 24:39-43; I John 4:2-3).
27. One with the Father (John 10:30).

27 lovely reasons!

Biker

MODERATOR WARNING

Biker, Easyrider. It has been requested on many occasions now that you follow the relevance of this thread. Thus far, it has veered so far off topic it is a question of whether it warrants statying open or getting closed. If you wish to continue debating the OP, then please stick to the points. If you wish to debate other points, then start new threads. Have enough respect for the person starting the OP to not run his thread amock.

[TMMaria]

I don't think you really believe I will fry in Hell for being an Atheist. I don't think you really truly believe any of your non-believing family will either. I think deep down, you know it just isn't true.

Awwww, you're trying so hard to have it said nicer, don't you? Shall we PC (politically correct) it a little bit? But, no, the Judge will say to the people who intentionally, willfully and knowing what they're doing at rejecting Him, "Depart from me, you don't know me so I don't know you." Only God who can search the hearts, thoughts, deeds, propensity, tendencies....be the Judge of whether you very being and existence is one of not knowing God. First of all, do you know what knowing God is about?

It's not like nothing has been done to warn all, you know. No this is not a "Let's sneak justice upon them" situation. God in His Mercy stooped way down to make sure we understand that He, after all, is a God of Justice. And Justice don't mess around. After all, He is a Sovereign God, He can't compromise His Justice and let a bunch of human beings run loose forever with their sinful ways of disobedience that distort goodness and purity. He is after all Mercy, and made promises to Himself pays the price of Justice given as a free gift; He'll not force it upon you. You have the choice to reject His Love or return it. He sent His Own Son who gives us all of His Body, Blood, and Divinity to help you make the right choice. But, if someday you have to depart from His Presence....that was your choice. He'd give you to even the last breath before you die to make that choice you choose Him and not that other place.

If you do believe they will all fry and are not doing absolutely everything in your power to stop it, I would suggest that you are a very cold, dispassionate person. If you really believed your dearly beloved mother was going to burn in hell right next to Cmass and Charles Manson then you would stop at nothing to convince her to accept Jesus. You would not just gently encourage, you would be emotionally and perhaps even physically engaged on a daily and hourly basis. You most certainly would not be reading this silly OP right now. Not if you REALLY cared.

Many are doing more than you ever realize...many consecrate their entire being to cooperate with Jesus in the works of saving souls: constant prayers, constant self-denial, constant spiritual battles, constant going out there to be living witness of love and charity so that you just might be able to see God through their life one day.

I hope you're serious enough about this truly caring side of yours to make sure you haven't spent precious time on temporal, material things and more on eternal life and the works of saving souls. By the way, when Jesus in with you, you have His assurance, "I leave you peace, the peace I leave you is not of this world..."

[McCulloch]

Awwww, you're trying so hard to have it said nicer, don't you? Shall we PC (politically correct) it a little bit? But, no, the Judge will say to the people who intentionally, willfully and knowing what they're doing at rejecting Him, "Depart from me, you don't know me so I don't know you." Only God who can search the hearts, thoughts, deeds, propensity, tendencies....be the Judge of whether you very being and existence is one of not knowing God. First of all, do you know what knowing God is about?

It is odd how sometimes believers completely miss the context of what they quote.

"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

In this passage where Jesus uses the phase, Depart from me, he is teaching that belief and adherence to religion will not get you saved. Doing the will of the Father will.

"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
"Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
"Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
"Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Here is another place where the phrase Depart from me is used. Jesus is again emphasizing action not belief with regard to being saved.

[Biker]

"Christ" is not god either. It is just one of the standard glorifications that the Roman and Egyptian tradition did, making an ordinary man into a God.

<chuckle>

THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST

1. Jesus existed in the beginning (John 1:1; Philip 2:6; Rev. 19:13; Micah 5:2).
2. He was with God (John 1:1).
3. He is God, the Son (John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8, 10; I John 5:20).
4. He is God manifest in the flesh (John 20:28; I Tim. 3:16; Col. 2:9; Acts 20:28; Heb. 1:8).
5. He is God foretold (Isaiah 9:6; Psalm 45:6).
6. He is Immanuel, God with us (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23).
7. He is the true God (I John 5:20 with Titus 2:13; Romans 9:5).
8. He is the great God (Titus 2:13).
9. He is God our Savior (II Peter 1:1).
10. He existed in the form of God before His incarnation and was equal with God the Father (Philippians 2:5-7).
11. He is the only wise God (Jude 25).
12. He is omnipotent over disease. (Matthew 8:1-4; Luke 4:39)
13. He is omnipotent over demons. (Matthew 8:16-17; Luke 4:35)
14. He is omnipotent over nature. ((Matthew 8:26)
15. He is omnipotent over death. (Luke 7:14-15; John 11:25)
16. He is omniscient, knowing the hearts of the Pharisees. (Matthew 12:25;
Luke 5:22; 6:8; 7:39-40)
17. He knew the thoughts of the scribes. (Matthew 9:3-4)
18. He knew the history of the Samaritan woman. (John 4:24)
19. He is omnipresent. (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; 14:20)
20. He was worshiped as God by the angels (Hebrews 1:6); worshiped as
God by the wise men (Matthew 2:2); worshiped as God by the shepherds
(Luke 2:15); worshiped as God by a ruler (Matthew 9:18); worshiped as
God by Thomas (John 20:28); worshiped as God by the apostles (Matthew
14:33; 28:9).
21. He forgives sins. (Mark 2:5)
22. He saves. (Matthew 18:11; John 10:28).
23. He judges. (John 5:22)
24. Paul, Peter, Jude, James, and John called Him God. (Galatians 2:20; 1 Peter
3:22; Jude 25; James 2:1; I John 5:20; Revelation 1:18; 19:16)
25. He is God's Son, who was sent to bring us eternal life. (John 3:16)
26. He arose from death in the flesh (John 20:26-28; Luke 24:39-43; I John 4:2-3).
27. One with the Father (John 10:30).

27 lovely reasons!

Biker

MODERATOR WARNING

Biker, Easyrider. It has been requested on many occasions now that you follow the relevance of this thread. Thus far, it has veered so far off topic it is a question of whether it warrants statying open or getting closed. If you wish to continue debating the OP, then please stick to the points. If you wish to debate other points, then start new threads. Have enough respect for the person starting the OP to not run his thread amock.

Should Goat have been included in on this warning also??? Since HE wrote the post!

Biker

[FinalEnigma]

First of all, do you know what knowing God is about?

I think so, but to be clear, could you explain?

It's not like nothing has been done to warn all, you know.

Actually, I would have to say that there are some people in remote areas that probably have not been warned.

[Scrotum]

It's not like nothing has been done to warn all, you know.

This is not the first time i´ve seen such comments, and it seems that this must be related to the lack of knowledge of the world. Apparently, according to comments suggested, EVERYONE knows about Jesus Christ and what you need to do to be saved through Him.

Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist etcetera. I want to ask you Maria, how much do you know about the Qu´ran? Vedas? Please, tell us your deep knowledge about this, as you seem to assume that the rest of the world knows specifically about yours.


When you answered, and admitted that you know nothing about these religions, then tell me, Do you consider your above comment suitable in light of this?

[Biker]

I don't think you really believe I will fry in hell for being an atheist.

Do I really believe what the inerrant Bible says very, very, very clearly, about who is going to hell?
Well lets take a look.

"And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15.

So, lets take a look at what the inerrant Bible has to say in detail, shall we. (Rev 20:11-15.)
WHO:anyone's name not found written
WHAT:the book of life
WHERE:lake of fire
WHEN:White thrown judgment, when the books are opened
WHY:according to their deeds
Question: you really believe I will fry in hell for being an atheist.
I really believe you will be thrown into the lake of fire according to your deeds, if you don't repent, and give your whole being to Jesus Christ by faith, and bring forth fruits worthy of your repentance, and by faith believe in God, thereby having your name written in that book of life! Yes, for all of eternity! Black-white,yes-no,are you-or aren't you, faith-faithless. It's all about Jesus Christ, and what you do with Him!
It doesn't have anything to do with atheism, it has everything to do with what you do with Jesus Christ. Either you go on Jesus Christ's deeds, or you go on your deeds. If you think your deeds are good enough to live in Gods presence with Him for eternity, go with it. If not, you need to accept and live in the light of and by faith in Jesus Christs deeds, by His rules, not your rules.
By your rules, lake of fire, forever.
By His rules, eternal life with Him.

Biker

[MagusYanam]

Okay, let's explore this further, shall we? Especially given that the Book of Revelation was a mystic experience by someone who was likely to be St. John, much of the language is symbolic and should be taken in that light.

WHO:anyone's name not found written
WHAT:the book of life
WHERE:lake of fire
WHEN:White thrown judgment, when the books are opened
WHY:according to their deeds

WHO: In other words, you don't know. Or do you have special access to this 'book of life' to see whose name is or is not written there?

WHAT: Again, you don't know. It's not even clear St. John knew. If his visions were given him by the Holy Spirit, then the answer is still that God only knows.

WHERE: Is this a geographical location? Or is it equivalent to gai-Hinnom, the purgatory of which Jesus speaks? Or Hades? Or Sheol?

WHEN: A day no one can know, obviously (again, unless Biker has intimate knowledge of these visions of St. John or knows the mind of God in ways no human being has yet known), but which hasn't arrived yet and which is unlikely will happen in the near future.

WHY: I'm sorry, I must have been under the misinformation that salvation could not be merited by one's deeds. [sarcasm] But I guess not Scripture, but the rantings of Biker must be the final authority - that answers my question. [/sarcasm]

[TMMaria]

It's not like nothing has been done to warn all, you know.

When you answered, and admitted that you know nothing about these religions, then tell me, Do you consider your above comment suitable in light of this?

Thanks for addressing my general statement. Most of the time due to time, I write things on the spur of the moment without time to even edit...and often times the thoughts think of things in the past, present, and future all at once...and conveying all those dymanic thought process into limited statements such as these. It certainly would violate the virtue of humility to say one knows everything about every religion. Even one, such as Christianity, would requires a lifelong journey to learn and still not have enough time in this lifetime to understand all of its profound mysteries.

To clarify, it's like nothing has been done by God to warn us of Judgment Day....He has done things to point of sending His Own Son, Himself, who would speak to us of eternal life and hell. "Be not afraid of the first death," He said. "Rather, it is the second death..." "Men shall not live on bread alone, but on every Words that come from the mouth of God." Yes, bread feed us but a hundred years, if even, then...we die. Death is the end for all of us....unless, we receive the gift of salvation.

Who will be saved? Many has asked. While many asked, many already made the presumptions that Outside the Church there is no salvation Indeed a very radical presumption!!! Faith does not depend upon our ability to reason to the truth but on our humility before the Truth presented to us by those to whom Christ entrusted that task.

Concerning this doctrine the Pope of Vatican I, Pius IX, spoke on two different occasions. In an allocution (address to an audience) on December 9th, 1854 he said:

We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge; we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord. And who would presume to mark out the limits of this ignorance according to the character and diversity of peoples, countries, minds and the rest?

Again, in his encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore of 10 August, 1863 addressed to the Italian bishops, he said:

It is known to us and to you that those who are in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion, but who observe carefully the natural law, and the precepts graven by God upon the hearts of all men, and who being disposed to obey God lead an honest and upright life, may, aided by the light of divine grace, attain to eternal life; for God who sees clearly, searches and knows the heart, the disposition, the thoughts and intentions of each, in His supreme mercy and goodness by no means permits that anyone suffer eternal punishment, who has not of his own free will fallen into sin.

God alone is the Judge of the level of humility you have when the Truth is presented to you to make a choice. God knows how well the Truth was presented to you, after all He knows Him human instruments are imperfect. God takes into consideration how well you observe His natural laws of goodness, love, mercy, kindness... There is a voice of conscience calling out to advice us against doing harm to others and ourself.

And should He judged that we get to receive the gift of salvation, it is not us who has the ability to paid the price of justice for the infinite offenses we committed against God even unintentionally...No, it is His Divine Son who pays for your sins, the Works of salvation was already in place.