A challenge to theists

[Infidel]

Name a moral or ethical statement or action that a believer could say/perform that a non-believer could not. If you can't meet this challenge, then why be religious? There is something enlightening about the corollary to this challenge. If I asked you to name a wicked statement or action that could only be taken by a believer, you need not hesitate for 3 seconds to think of one.

[bluethread]

I better myself by dieing for a just cause. Admittedly, it is better to advance a just cause without dieing. However, the latter does not fit the criteria.

[Filthy Tugboat]

I better myself by dieing for a just cause. Admittedly, it is better to advance a just cause without dieing. However, the latter does not fit the criteria.

How does this fit the criteria? Are you suggesting that atheist's cannot die for a cause they deem to be just?

[David 2.0]

Name a moral proposition that a stone mason could have that a mechanic could not?


Lets break it down even further.


Name a moral act that a person can do, that a person can not do?

Bus driver this is my stop.

Circular and sneaky.

[bluethread]

I better myself by dieing for a just cause. Admittedly, it is better to advance a just cause without dieing. However, the latter does not fit the criteria.

How does this fit the criteria? Are you suggesting that atheist's cannot die for a cause they deem to be just?

No, but how would an athiest say he is bettering himself?

[Filthy Tugboat]

I better myself by dieing for a just cause. Admittedly, it is better to advance a just cause without dieing. However, the latter does not fit the criteria.

How does this fit the criteria? Are you suggesting that atheist's cannot die for a cause they deem to be just?

No, but how would an athiest say he is bettering himself?

An atheist could say he was bettering himself by trying to change himself and by considering what he is changing into better than what he used to be. The exact same goes for the theist.

When humans consider something better than something else (for example a future idealistic version of yourself compared to your current self) they are comparing that thing(their current self) with an abstract standard that they think is better(the future idealistic version of themselves). So yeah, I don't see what this has to do with atheism and theism.

[AquinasD]

A believer could truthfully say "I am a believer."

Does that fulfill the challenge? Or were we looking for super secret powers?

[ThatGirlAgain]

A believer could truthfully say "I am a believer."

Does that fulfill the challenge? Or were we looking for super secret powers?

I do not think that meets the challenge, which was….

Name a moral or ethical statement or action that a believer could say/perform that a non-believer could not.

It would have to be demonstrated that �I am a believer� is a moral or ethical statement entirely in itself independent of any implications, which it is not, or alternatively that it implies some moral/ethical statements or actions that are unavailable to the non-believer. If the latter, then what are those moral/ethical statements or actions? But that is simply the original challenge.

Sorry, no dice.

[bluethread]

I better myself by dieing for a just cause. Admittedly, it is better to advance a just cause without dieing. However, the latter does not fit the criteria.

How does this fit the criteria? Are you suggesting that atheist's cannot die for a cause they deem to be just?

No, but how would an athiest say he is bettering himself?

An atheist could say he was bettering himself by trying to change himself and by considering what he is changing into better than what he used to be. The exact same goes for the theist.

When humans consider something better than something else (for example a future idealistic version of yourself compared to your current self) they are comparing that thing(their current self) with an abstract standard that they think is better(the future idealistic version of themselves). So yeah, I don't see what this has to do with atheism and theism.

However, for the atheist, such a sacrifice would cause that one to no longer exist. How has the atheist then bettered himself? However, the theist, would believe that he has found favor in the sight of Adonai and will be rewarded in the afterlife.

[Filthy Tugboat]

I better myself by dieing for a just cause. Admittedly, it is better to advance a just cause without dieing. However, the latter does not fit the criteria.

How does this fit the criteria? Are you suggesting that atheist's cannot die for a cause they deem to be just?

No, but how would an athiest say he is bettering himself?

An atheist could say he was bettering himself by trying to change himself and by considering what he is changing into better than what he used to be. The exact same goes for the theist.

When humans consider something better than something else (for example a future idealistic version of yourself compared to your current self) they are comparing that thing(their current self) with an abstract standard that they think is better(the future idealistic version of themselves). So yeah, I don't see what this has to do with atheism and theism.

However, for the atheist, such a sacrifice would cause that one to no longer exist. How has the atheist then bettered himself?

They wouldn't have bettered themselves, but they would have bettered whatever they died for, or at least from their perspective. The sacrifice was not for their own benefit but the benefit of others.

However, the theist, would believe that he has found favor in the sight of Adonai and will be rewarded in the afterlife.

However a theist wants to justify their actions is up to them.

[bluethread]

When humans consider something better than something else (for example a future idealistic version of yourself compared to your current self) they are comparing that thing(their current self) with an abstract standard that they think is better(the future idealistic version of themselves). So yeah, I don't see what this has to do with atheism and theism.

However, for the atheist, such a sacrifice would cause that one to no longer exist. How has the atheist then bettered himself?

They wouldn't have bettered themselves, but they would have bettered whatever they died for, or at least from their perspective. The sacrifice was not for their own benefit but the benefit of others.

Ah, then they could not honestly say that they better themselves by dieing for a cause, which was the statement I proposed. They may have bettered the cause, but not themselves.

However, the theist, would believe that he has found favor in the sight of Adonai and will be rewarded in the afterlife.

However a theist wants to justify their actions is up to them.

However, that response violates the premise of the question. This is not about justifying one's actions. The question is what moral statement can a theist make that an atheist can not. Is or is not the statement that one betters oneself by dieing for a cause a statement of moral principle?