Homosexuality: A chosen trait, or gentetically aquired?

[The Persnickety Platypus]

This question is a major underlying factor of the general homosexual debate, the answer of which can narrow the scope in questioning its morality.



Are people born gay, or do they choose to be?
Can someone be blamed for their sexual orientation, or is it subject to factors we have no control over?

[bernee51]

Ok, as far as I can tell, AlAyeti says that gay sex does not in fact feel good to homosexuals.

Firstly, why do you say that ?

Secondly, why do you think they engage in gay sex at all, if it doesn't feel good to them ?

Please answer as clearly and concisely as you possibly can.

Anatomy answers the first question. No clitoris or penile glans in the rectum or mouth.

Not quite true - have you heard of the so-called male G-spot, it is in the rectum and associated with the prostate gland - a gland very much involved in sexual congress.

Do you you believe that oral sex is not pleasurable to heterosexuals - the giver as much as the receiver?

One-sided sexual activity is only enjoyable to one person.

If you are tlaking about penile/vaginal stimulation I say -
what a load of crap - and I speak from experience.

[The Happy Humanist]

First, I don't approve of bank robbery or genocide. Am I a closeted bank robber or Communist Leader in training?

800+ messages about sex, this is the first one mentioning bank robbery. You do the math.

Boo! Doesn't work on me. Sorry. I don't scare easy and bullies go away when challenged.

I think we all know who the bully is here. You're the one engaging in fag-bashing and name-calling.

The only help I need is for millions more Christians to register to vote.

I seriously doubt you could muster the support of even 10% of the Christians on this board, let alone "millions more" unregistered Christians. Why don't you start with your buddy Fred Phelps? Surely he can galvanize support for your cause.

[Bugmaster]

Do rapists enjoy sex? You did notice the qualifier I hope?

Are you claiming that all homosexual sex is forced ?

You provide me with that fodder and I'm just itching for the comeback of the year.

Let's hear it.

From the strictly biological, sexual intercourse is only penis-vagina. It doesn't matter what behavior leads up to the definition of truth.

Are you saying that homosexual sex does not exist ? What the ? What have you been opposing all this time, then ?

I don't know what it is like to beat myself with a whip or, to be beaten by one, and I hear that some people find this enjoyable.

It sounds like you're admitting that gay people might enjoy gay sex. Is that true ?

Let me restate some of my questions, for clarity:

1). Is it possible for two gay adults to engage in mutually consensual gay sex for their pleasure ? Note that I said "their pleasure", not yours.
2). In a homosexual sex act consisting of two people, how many people typically receive enjoyment from it ? 0, 1, or 2 ?
3). If the answer is "0", then why do gay people have sex at all ?
4). Is vaginal intercourse the only method by which people can receive enjoyment from sex ?

Please answer as clearly and concisely as you can. You've done it once before, I know you can do it again.

[palmera]

No clitoris or penile glans in the rectum or mouth.

Also, Al, to make this claim in support of your argument that homosexual intercourse in not enjoyable is misleading and incorrect. First, the prostate on the male is located in an area stimulated by anal sex and can cause ejaculation in the male... which is very pleasurable. Also, clitoris and penile glands are not the only areas of the body stimulated by sexual intercourse.

Why exactly do you have a hang-up about homosexuality? You seem to place the blame for a lot of problems we have in western society on the shoulders of homosexuals- why? Your distaste for it obviously goes beyond religious views and doctrines. Why so angry about it? Why do you feel the need to blame the woes of western civilization on a small minority of people simply trying to live free from persecution and hate?

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Not do diverge from the topic, but...

I'm niether a Pastor nor an evangelist.

What difference does that make? You are attempting to instruct others, and do not seem to be following the Bible's guidelines on how that instruction is to be carried out.

And Ephesians is talking about interacting with other Christians. Bugmaster is not a Christian.

What of 2 Timothy?

Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth.



The Bibles instructions on dealing with others seem pretty clear to me. Maybe not.

[AlAyeti]

Why exactly do you have a hang-up about homosexuality? You seem to place the blame for a lot of problems we have in western society on the shoulders of homosexuals- why? Your distaste for it obviously goes beyond religious views and doctrines. Why so angry about it? Why do you feel the need to blame the woes of western civilization on a small minority of people simply trying to live free from persecution and hate?

Palmera asks the best question.

My well-founded concern is no hang-up. The attempt to scare me by labeling me a homophobe or closeted whatever is laughable. I don't seek to normalize felonies. Am I criminalophobic?

800-plus posts about sex because that is the main thing pushed onto Christians to accept. Divorce? From adultery. Sex. Abortion? The vast majority are for birth contol to continue sexual promiscuity. "Human Rights" as Homosexual rights? Homosexuality is personal and supposedly private sexual behavior. Why shout it in the public square? More Christians (Dod Bless them) have been murdered in the past month than anyone getting harrassed for walking around in public wearing leather and chains.

I defend the Christian perspective about a life of sanity being better than whoredom and promiscuity. I have the entire New Testament backing me up. Progressive-Christians only have Liberal politics.

Calling me a bully is stupid. Christians are denigrated from one end of this website to the other. I just punch back. Oh so sad if I hurt feelings by using science and empiricism to defend against accpetance of abominations and aberrations.

The licentiousness and hedonism that has arisen to destroy the lives of children finds its coup de grces in licensing full scale sexual deviance.

Only man-boy love or adult-child sexual acceptance is left. The ACLU (of course) is doing its best for kiddie porn. In Canada and of course European countiries and indo-Chinese cities, this is already common place.

My distaste for sexual aberration is only seen when it is attempted to be normalized by those calling themselves intelligent and/or Christian.

Anatomy, physiology and biology and the history of pederasty, is presented to prove my position is not rooted in bigotry but in cold hard science. The Happy Humanist can call me a bully but it is that I stand up against belittling and denigration for not cow towing to the liberal agenda of chaos.

I have never used the "F" word to describe a homosexual or written off people that engage in unnatural sex. There is cures sought for other congenital disorders, why not homosexuality. Two things give this credence: Why would anyone choose this lifestyle. AND. . . They are born that way.

Then lets help them.

There is no educated stance for violating the human body by invading orifices that are not intended for sex. Sorry if I think dildos and KY are forced into use in same-sex sex. Empiricism is the key to impassionate logic.

Look at the emotionalism slung at my position even a few posts down.

Scientific fact is not bigotry. Isn't that what atheists-secualrists-humanists-freethinkers-progressives-liberals - yada yada - tell Christians when they oppose them? Telling a flat earther they are not correct and showing the sciene to prove it makes them willingly accpeting wrong if they choose to embrace a mistake. Go ahead and let them but why give them some kind of educated support? It is not sound logic.

What bugmaster is attempting is to get me to watch porno. Hoping that I get numb to it. That is trolling not debating.

Boo! Doesn't work on me. My logic is sound.

Look at this absurd analogy from an atheist I somewhat respect:

If you are tlaking about penile/vaginal stimulation I say -
what a load of crap - and I speak from experience.

The load of crap comes through the rectum and anus.

Now supposedly we all know this from experience.

See my point?

[AlAyeti]

What difference does that make? You are attempting to instruct others, and do not seem to be following the Bible's guidelines on how that instruction is to be carried out.
Quote:
And Ephesians is talking about interacting with other Christians. Bugmaster is not a Christian.

What of 2 Timothy Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth.



The Bibles instructions on dealing with others seem pretty clear to me. Maybe not.

Are we Christians allowed to proselytize and try to covert others on this website? Man I'm ready for that. Think the agnostics will enjoy that, or will the fur fly?

What about the advice on casting pearls before swine?

Jesus may have known a thing or two about those that will not repent.

I sincerely hope that people choose Christ. But, it is clear that some will not.

I just let them get away with denigarting and belittling people of character?

Why not punch back?

No one is trying to martyr me. And they all claim that they are presenting science and reason against us ignorant backward Fundies and if we find it unsettling . . . no insult was intended.

Now, we know they are lying, but we play the game huh?

Yet, these same people cannot find the right hole in the human body for the purposes they were designed for.

And they want to be considered intelligent.

Please.

[Bugmaster]

What bugmaster is attempting is to get me to watch porno. Hoping that I get numb to it. That is trolling not debating.

What the ? When did I attempt that ? Now, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against you watching porno if you really want to, but that has no bearing whatsoever on the argument.

All I'm trying to do is get you to back up at least some of your claims, such as:

* All homosexuals are pedophiles
* The ACLU is Satan
* Gay sex is not enjoyable to gay people (though I think you've changed your mind on that one)
* Sex is for procreation only
* Christians are being mudered by orders of the Homosexual Agenda

So far, you've been big on preaching, not so big on defending your views. That's your preorgative, I guess, but don't expect to be taken seriously if you keep this up.

[palmera]

I don't seek to normalize felonies. Am I criminalophobic?

You speak of "facts," "empiricism" and "logic," yet through your continuing effort to criminalize homosexuality, you betray your argument through hipocrisy.

Homosexuality is personal and supposedly private sexual behavior. Why shout it in the public square?

This "shouting" (as in Gay Pride Parades) is a response to homosexual persecution. You present this as though one day every LGBT person in America decided to flaunt themselves for the world to see. This is not the case. In point of fact, not only is it a response to persecution, often publicly done so, but further to the flaunting of heterosexuality which has become the paradigm of entertainment in western society.

More Christians (Dod Bless them) have been murdered in the past month than anyone getting harrassed for walking around in public wearing leather and chains.

More Christians have murdered more people in the past month than anyone walking around in public wearing leather and chains.

I defend the Christian perspective about a life of sanity being better than whoredom and promiscuity. I have the entire New Testament backing me up. Progressive-Christians only have Liberal politics.

I believe Jesus would beg to differ. Not only did he befriend whores, but if you'll notice the genealogies presented in the new testament, Jesus has a couple of whores he's descended from. Liberal politics.... how is it that right wing christians are the last ones to realize they are tools of the Republican party, supporting a party of lies, war-mongering, crony-ism, and crime in it's highest levels?

Oh so sad if I hurt feelings by using science and empiricism to defend against accpetance of abominations and aberrations.

A remarkably similar thought process initiated euthanasia in Germany, and eventually grew into Shoa.

The ACLU (of course) is doing its best for kiddie porn.

This is out of hand. Far from being completely unsubstantiated, this statement speaks more about you than the ACLU.

Anatomy, physiology and biology and the history of pederasty, is presented to prove my position is not rooted in bigotry but in cold hard science. The Happy Humanist can call me a bully but it is that I stand up against belittling and denigration for not cow towing to the liberal agenda of chaos.

To begin with, one book from one historian presenting one view about pederasty during a specific time in one location, Athens, Greece is not THE history of pederasty. How can you possibly claim to have solid evidence for your claims when you not only site history as science, but further make a statement like this. You have thrown out the whole of scholarly work on pederasty for one book you incorrectly think supports your claims... this is narrow-mindedness enacted.

Come to think of it, I do remember John Kerry's stance on all things as "we should resort to chaos." That platform wasn't very effective for him I guess or else all liberals would be dancing and singing songs of freedom from logic and sanity. Thank God for G.W.

have never used the "F" word to describe a homosexual or written off people that engage in unnatural sex. There is cures sought for other congenital disorders, why not homosexuality. Two things give this credence: Why would anyone choose this lifestyle. AND. . . They are born that way.

Then lets help them

You should watch the movie Saved.

There is no educated stance for violating the human body by invading orifices that are not intended for sex. Sorry if I think dildos and KY are forced into use in same-sex sex. Empiricism is the key to impassionate logic.

Good point. I guess it would then be a sin, and scientifically abnormal to, during sex, kiss, caress, touch in any way (other than with sexual organs of course) whisper, hug, or do anything else that is not directly related to penile insertion into the vagina. You must not violate the mouth with lips, tongue or fingers. You must stay far away from the ears. A female must not handle the penis in any way except when it's inside of her. Yes. That makes perfect sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

Look at this absurd analogy from an atheist I somewhat respect:Quote:
If you are tlaking about penile/vaginal stimulation I say -
what a load of crap - and I speak from experience.

Um..... this is in no way an analogy.

Are we Christians allowed to proselytize and try to covert others on this website? Man I'm ready for that. Think the agnostics will enjoy that, or will the fur fly?

Well, trying to convert someone is not part of debating. Debating doesn't deal with attempting to brainwashing someone; rather, a debate forum exists for the presentation of differing ideas in a common place. I'm going to go ahead and say that, yes, the purpose of proselytizing and converting are completely averse to the goals of a debate forum... so yes, the proverbial fur would fly.

I sincerely hope that people choose Christ. But, it is clear that some will not.

I just let them get away with denigarting and belittling people of character?

Why not punch back?

Turn the other cheek comes to mind. First, you're not denigrated. Simply because people choose to defend those whom you denigrate (please refer to your constant criminalization of homosexuality) it doesn't mean you're being denigrated, it means you're being defensive about a stance which obviously born out of your own mind rather than the Lord you claim to follow.

No one is trying to martyr me. And they all claim that they are presenting science and reason against us ignorant backward Fundies and if we find it unsettling . . . no insult was intended.

Now, we know they are lying, but we play the game huh?

Yet, these same people cannot find the right hole in the human body for the purposes they were designed for.

And they want to be considered intelligent.

Please.

Please explain what this series of one- liners means; specifically, what you mean when you seem to be arguing that everyone who argues against you is ignorant. That's a really christian thing to say.

[AlAyeti]

AlAyeti wrote:
What bugmaster is attempting is to get me to watch porno. Hoping that I get numb to it. That is trolling not debating.

What the ? When did I attempt that ? Now, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against you watching porno if you really want to, but that has no bearing whatsoever on the argument.

All I'm trying to do is get you to back up at least some of your claims, such as:

* All homosexuals are pedophiles
* The ACLU is Satan
* Gay sex is not enjoyable to gay people (though I think you've changed your mind on that one)
* Sex is for procreation only
* Christians are being mudered by orders of the Homosexual Agenda

So far, you've been big on preaching, not so big on defending your views. That's your preorgative, I guess, but don't expect to be taken seriously if you keep this up.

Homosexuality was once equal to Pederaasty, then called inversion and then called homosexuality.

That homosexual activists are allowed in schools give me great cause to beleive that pederasty is indeed the issue.

Satan means "adversary." The ACLU absolutely chases Chrsitainity everywhere it is mentioned. Yes, the ACLU is Satanic. Satan himself maybe be other places.

I do not think about gays having sex. Though it is clear that you want me to. I have not changed my mind on sexual aberration. I enjoy the company of other people and I assume that homosexuals enjoy the company of their friends. Anatomy leads me to my conclusion about comfortable and non-painful sex.

Procreation is only from proper sex. I cannot redefine facts to promote a wierd perverted agenda.

Nice try with your last absurdity. It is in keeping with hte others except the pitiless feelings for people that are really suffering.

I claimed that Christians were being killed as of right now. Poot pitiful homosexuals have to accepet marriage as it can only be defined.

Ever wonder why there has to be a "Defense of Marriage Act?"

The intolerant is imbedded in the homosexual agenda. Congress and President Clinton had to protect families from attack.