Many failed predictions of Jesus return..

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Elijah John
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Many failed predictions of Jesus return..

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV)
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Fathers glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
There have been many failed predictions of the "2nd coming of Christ". Most notably, Charles Taze Russell who predicted Jesus would return in 1914. When he didn't return, the prediction was revised to mean an "invisible return".

For debate, in light of the quoted passage from Matthew, was Jesus the first person to mistakenly predict his return?

How is Jesus prediction different from any of the others who have mistakenly predicted the time of his return?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Elijah John
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Re: Many failed predictions of Jesus return..

Post #31

Post by Elijah John »

1213 wrote:
Elijah John wrote: Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV)
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Fathers glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
That prediction came true after few days according to the Bible. it is not failed prophesy, unless we ignore what the Bible tells in Matthew 17 and then we could as well ignore the claim of wrong prediction.

After six days, Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John his brother, and brought them up into a high mountain by themselves. He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his garments became as white as the light. Behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them talking with him.

Matt. 17:1-3
Again, apologists are refering to the Transfiguration as the fullfillment of the prophecy. And again, where are the angels spoken or in verse 27? Where is the dishing out of rewards and punishiments?

Sounds like Jesus was referring to the 2nd coming, and not the Transfiguration.

Verse 27 and 28 are linked, in the same paragraph. Same paragraph, same topic.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Tart
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Post #32

Post by Tart »

Elijah John wrote:
Tart wrote:
Elijah John wrote: The problem with the "Transfiguration" explanation, is that there are no angels, and no judgement, as is spoken of in verse 27.

Seems pretty clear Jesus was speaking of his "2nd coming".
Actually there was Angels in the transfiguration...

Jesus was in His fathers Glory, standing among the angles of Moses, and Elijah.
.
Moses and Elijah were no angels. ;). Seriously, they were not angels. People don't become angels when they die. Moses and Elijah were people.
Where are you getting your definition for "Angels", and where does it say that it cant be Moses and Elijah? Is that just you asserting something, or is there any kind of evidence that convinced you that?

I looked up the Greek word we get for "angel".

"angel, messenger; this can refer to a human messenger, such as John the Baptist, or messengers sent by John the Baptist or Jesus, or to the supernatural class of being that serves God"
https://www.studylight.org/lexicons/greek/32.html
Elijah John wrote: And where is the judgment spoken of in verse 27? There was no judgment in the Tranfiguration.
Im not so sure about this... There was no judgment? It looks like there was judgement throughout the Gospels...

For example these quotes...
"7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, We have Abraham as our father. I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire."

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Danmark
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Post #33

Post by Danmark »

A central reason there are so very many failed predictions of the 2d coming [over 50 and counting], https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictio ... _of_Christ
is because those who claim to understand scripture deny the clearest and most obvious claims of Jesus himself who said he was coming back within a generation, within the life times (plural) of those listening to him during his discourse on the Mt. of Olives. Having rejected the truth, they believe a lie. This sentiment is echoed in several of Paul's epistles.

"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths."
__ 2 Timothy 4:3-4

It isn't just the those specific passages, but the whole of Paul's ministry that consistently refers to the time he lived as the last days, hence the urgency of the message, the exhortations to leave friend, family, and worldly goods behind.

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Post #34

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to post 17 by alexxcJRO]

EJ observed

And where is the judgment spoken of in verse 27? There was no judgment in the Tranfiguration.

I replied

Two different events.

In verse 28 Jesus introduces what will happen next, and that is not about his return with angels in judgment.

You wrote
Off course Jesus changed the topic mid-phrase. Smile

This way one can make a case for "Jesus was probably suffering from a psychotic disorder."
Rubbishing a reading refutes it not.

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Post #35

Post by Danmark »

Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 17 by alexxcJRO]

EJ observed

And where is the judgment spoken of in verse 27? There was no judgment in the Tranfiguration.

I replied

Two different events.

In verse 28 Jesus introduces what will happen next, and that is not about his return with angels in judgment.
Jesus' return is after the "tribulation," not the transfiguration and it is set out clearly in Matthew 24, along with the timing, that Jesus will return soon, within 'this generation.'

"15 So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, Look, he is in the wilderness, do not go out. If they say, Look, he is in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

The Coming of the Son of Man
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The Lesson of the Fig Tree
32 From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

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Post #36

Post by Danmark »

Tart wrote:
Where are you getting your definition for "Angels", and where does it say that it cant be Moses and Elijah? Is that just you asserting something, or is there any kind of evidence that convinced you that?

I looked up the Greek word we get for "angel".
Have you tried using the BIBLE to define "angel?" Can you find a single Bible verse that suggests men could be angels? There are only two angels who are given names, Michael and Gabriel. In addition, Jesus says angels are not human; they are in heaven and they do not marry.
https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/bibl ... ts-angels/

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Re: Many failed predictions of Jesus return..

Post #37

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to post 31 by Elijah John]

[qu0te]Again, apologists are refering to the Transfiguration as the fullfillment of the prophecy. And again, where are the angels spoken or in verse 27? Where is the dishing out of rewards and punishiments?

Sounds like Jesus was referring to the 2nd coming, and not the Transfiguration.

Verse 27 and 28 are linked, in the same paragraph. Same paragraph, same topic.[/quote]

One may well think so, at the first reading.

The Transfiguration is not the fulfilment of 16:27, which discusses the future second coming, in general terms, but of 16:28, about which he specifies that "some standing here" will "see".

They are linked but are not the same topic.

Matthew did not write in paragraphs, chapters, or verses, or use speech marks. All of these are the much later work of translators.

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Post #38

Post by alexxcJRO »

Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 17 by alexxcJRO]

EJ observed

And where is the judgment spoken of in verse 27? There was no judgment in the Tranfiguration.

I replied

Two different events.

In verse 28 Jesus introduces what will happen next, and that is not about his return with angels in judgment.

You wrote
Off course Jesus changed the topic mid-phrase. Smile

This way one can make a case for "Jesus was probably suffering from a psychotic disorder."
Rubbishing a reading refutes it not.

Q: Did Jesus changed the topic mid-phrase or not? (Yes/No question)
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
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Post #39

Post by Checkpoint »

alexxcJRO wrote:
Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 17 by alexxcJRO]

EJ observed

And where is the judgment spoken of in verse 27? There was no judgment in the Tranfiguration.

I replied

Two different events.

In verse 28 Jesus introduces what will happen next, and that is not about his return with angels in judgment.

You wrote
Off course Jesus changed the topic mid-phrase. Smile

This way one can make a case for "Jesus was probably suffering from a psychotic disorder."
Rubbishing a reading refutes it not.

Q: Did Jesus changed the topic mid-phrase or not? (Yes/No question)
Yes, but not "mid-phrase".

As I said, "Two different events".

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Post #40

Post by alexxcJRO »

Checkpoint wrote:
alexxcJRO wrote:
Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 17 by alexxcJRO]

EJ observed

And where is the judgment spoken of in verse 27? There was no judgment in the Tranfiguration.

I replied

Two different events.

In verse 28 Jesus introduces what will happen next, and that is not about his return with angels in judgment.

You wrote
Off course Jesus changed the topic mid-phrase. Smile

This way one can make a case for "Jesus was probably suffering from a psychotic disorder."
Rubbishing a reading refutes it not.

Q: Did Jesus changed the topic mid-phrase or not? (Yes/No question)
Yes, but not "mid-phrase".

As I said, "Two different events".

When i said mid-phrase i meant suddenly, rapidly.

Q: Did Jesus changed rapidly the subject, topic?(Yes/No question)
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

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