Bad Christian or not a Christian?

[boatsnguitars]

Can you still be a Christian, even if you purposely defy Jesus's commands?

So everyone is clear, Jesus commanded of his followers:

Love God and Love Your Neighbor:
Matthew 22:37-39 (NIV): "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

The Great Commission:
Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV): "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

Repentance and Forgiveness:
Luke 24:46-47 (NIV): "Repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations."

The Golden Rule:
Matthew 7:12 (NIV): "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Humility and Servanthood:
Matthew 20:26-28 (NIV): "Whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave."

Seek God's Kingdom First:
Matthew 6:33 (NIV): "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."

The New Commandment:
John 13:34-35 (NIV): "Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

Perseverance and Endurance:
Matthew 24:13 (NIV): "But the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

Faith and Trust:
John 14:1 (NIV): "Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me."

Generosity and Selflessness:
Luke 6:30 (NIV): "Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back."

Giving to Those in Need:
Matthew 5:42 (NIV): "Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."

At what point does a person go from being a bad Christian to no Christian at all?

[boatsnguitars]

Can you still be a Christian, even if you purposely defy Jesus's commands?

At what point does a person go from being a bad Christian to no Christian at all?

So, you're saying Christians are moral and non-Christians aren't? Or are you saying that your expectations are superfluous due to some quasi-religious inferiority complex? Maybe it's just a smokescreen for a xenophobic religious discrimination? Or are you genuinely of the theological belief that sin is absolved immediately upon becoming a Christian? (Romans 6:7)

I think it's irrelevant. The point is that your criticism is only a symptom of something else.

I think you have not understood the question - perhaps from your own guilt in not following Jesus's commands?

[Data]

...

Luke 12:33
Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.

Matt 19:21
Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”


(Go figure... An atheist educating and encouraging Christians to be more Christian!)

I think many Christians don't actually realize they are not following all Jesus's teachings. And, conveniently, when pressed on such matters as above we get "Well, we all sin sometimes and don't do everything perfectly, but we still follow Jesus!"

To which I would respond with the following story where Jesus does forgive you your sins, but also asks that you leave your life of sin i.e. stop sinning.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

To which some may respond "Well, I can just repent over and over and be forgiven!"

Ok, but at what point are you really going to try and follow ALL the teachings and stop ignoring the inconvenient ones because you can ask to be forgiven for not doing them?

Seriously? You think you know more about what it involves to be a Christian than a Christian? And you think that Christ meant for all Christians to sell their belongings and devote themselves to missionary work, even after his teachings were so common throughout the world compared to what they were then in spite of the failings of the Christians themselves?

This argument is just nonsense. You want to make them feel bad so they will change their ways and become more like you while telling them you have no commonalities, meaning you are without what? But you're all the same.

[Data]

I think you have not understood the question - perhaps from your own guilt in not following Jesus's commands?

I understand the question more than you do. And why would I possess such guilt?

[Data]

Sure! If you don't like what Jesus said, just go next door to the next church until you find the Jesus you want.

There's a Jesus for everyone! And Christians think that kind of popularity is evidence its all true!

Amazing what people can convince themselves of: they can even decide they don't need to follow Jesus, only find the Jesus they want to follow according to their desires.

Exactly. Or follow Jesus without the public sociopolitical baggage as a freethinking person who doesn't listen to socioreligious charlatans who monetize apostate tradition or, for that matter, listen to uninformed critics of one without knowing the other and why those critics do that or that they are in the same ship of fools for the same reason.

Grammatically that was difficult to pull off. I, uh - oh well. The point is anyone with any sense who looks towards organized religion or concerns themselves obsessively with it, whether from a supportive or critical perspective get what they want out of it or they wouldn't. And what they want out of it is rarely what it seems, which makes it all the more foolish.

[Data]

[Replying to benchwarmer in post #7]

And you gotta love how many Christians try to argue against what Jesus clearly said while declaring they are true followers...

Oh, sure, Christian, tell us all about what Jesus meant to say - that, amazingly, allows you to do whatever you feel is best for you.... roll eyes...

Playing the same game. Hypocrisy.

[Data]

The responses here clearly bear that out.

I'm amazed at how many seemingly decent people will simple ignore their moral compass and ignore Jesuscommands to be better people in the eyes of the God they insist they believe in.

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked. “Only God is truly good." Mark 10:18 (NLV)

[Data]

What about all those Christians living in poverty, begging for God to help them as they suffer their entire lives?

Consider the lilies.

I wonder what the rich Christians say about them? That they lack faith? That God will have zn extra case of beer for them in Heaven?

So, according to you the weight of the world is on the shoulders of the Christians who are to be no part of it while the worldly are free from such responsibility? All the while the skeptics boast of the decline of religion. Meanwhile, the world is becoming a place where the worldly people are safer and far more compassionate and generous every day. Fascinatingly sophisticated demonstrable philosophy.

[Data]

[Replying to 1213 in post #21]

I'm not going to do the simple search for you. If you aren't aware of where poor people are, by any measure, you are woefully uninformed.

But, of course you know where they are because it would be hypocritical of you not to. You have to know where they are in a more than general way in order to help them. Look up Christian organizations that help the poor and compare those to atheist ones. You'll figure it out.

It's almost as if you refuse to acknowledge there is poverty in the world at all.

It's got to be Trump or Jesus to blame, huh?

As for your last comment, we have come to expect this attitude among American and Western Christians steeped in Capitalust dogma, but I have to wonder where the Bible supports this?

There's the root! Finally. The real reason.

[Data]

Is it just me, or do people find these responses disingenuous?

It isn't just you or you wouldn't be here and neither would your conteporaries. They hunt in packs.

Perhaps, like most Christians, you don't care because it must be their fault - and you've got yours, so they don't concern you. After all, if you don't see any legitimate poor people, you don't have to follow Jesus's command to help them, is that it?

Perhaps you care about the poor thinking they better themselves by not being poor whereas those you criticize care about other things. That wouldn't explain the overwhelingly more prevelant assistance of the poor by those you criticize. Only hypocricy or ignorance would explain that.

[TRANSPONDER]

...

Luke 12:33
Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.

Matt 19:21
Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”


(Go figure... An atheist educating and encouraging Christians to be more Christian!)

I think many Christians don't actually realize they are not following all Jesus's teachings. And, conveniently, when pressed on such matters as above we get "Well, we all sin sometimes and don't do everything perfectly, but we still follow Jesus!"

To which I would respond with the following story where Jesus does forgive you your sins, but also asks that you leave your life of sin i.e. stop sinning.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

To which some may respond "Well, I can just repent over and over and be forgiven!"

Ok, but at what point are you really going to try and follow ALL the teachings and stop ignoring the inconvenient ones because you can ask to be forgiven for not doing them?

Seriously? You think you know more about what it involves to be a Christian than a Christian? And you think that Christ meant for all Christians to sell their belongings and devote themselves to missionary work, even after his teachings were so common throughout the world compared to what they were then in spite of the failings of the Christians themselves?

This argument is just nonsense. You want to make them feel bad so they will change their ways and become more like you while telling them you have no commonalities, meaning you are without what? But you're all the same.

Why not? I have come to think that many an atheist understands the Bible better than the average Christian does, so why shouldn't thy undesrtand what it says - which isn't of course what Christianity has adopted and adapted as dogma, to suit itself. Just for one thing Jesus said Sabbath and temple didn't matter. One can Interpret that of course, so it doesn't translate as Church and Sunday worship doesn't matter, but it takes a massive degree of Block Christian Oblivion to apparently not even consider it.

No, I suspect that we goddless know the Bible and even Christianity better than the average Christian does.

The responses here clearly bear that out.

I'm amazed at how many seemingly decent people will simple ignore their moral compass and ignore Jesus' commands to be better people in the eyes of the God they insist they believe in.

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked. “Only God is truly good." Mark 10:18 (NLV)

That is close to sauce or cheek . You must know it is not an argument or response but a smokescreen. Apart from Jesus hinting that Jesus was Good and therefore God, that is no excuse for not folowing the teachings (or even trying), let alone those who use religion in an almost blasphemous way for their own purposes - which is rather what you said above, but of course,it's ok when You say it as that is righteous anger, but an atheist it's just wickedness and lack of understanding.

This is probably your best worst example yet.