Cultural Christians.

[William]

Elon Musk has identified himself as a cultural Christian in a new interview.

"While Im not a particularly religious person, I do believe that the teachings of Jesus are good and wise I would say Im probably a cultural Christian," the Tesla CEO said during a conversation on X with Jordan Peterson today. "Theres tremendous wisdom in turning the other cheek."

Christian beliefs, Musk argued, "result in the greatest happiness for humanity, considering not just the present, but all future humans Im actually a big believer in the principles of Christianity. I think theyre very good."

{SOURCE}

For debate.

Q: Is it better for the world to be a Cultural Christian than an all-out anti-theist?

Also.

Q: Is it better to be a Cultural Christian that belong to any organised Christian religion?

Cultural Christian Definition = Anyone that believes that the teachings of Jesus are good and wise.

[TRANSPONDER]

But there are some parts of the Bible that lean abusive.

Nobody's perfect: Is that an abusive teaching or an observable reality? I have yet to meet the person that has never made a mistake or needed to be forgiven.

But, if you are going to use such an excuse, you are saying that the Bible, and everything in it is from fallible humans, not a god.

[TRANSPONDER]

....
How is an isolated Christian in a "religion of one" any different from an humanitarian atheist? How can someone's observable actions (motivated by love) identify the group he belongs to as true disciples of Christ?
...

Atheists don't believe God nor Jesus. Disciple of Jesus believes. I think that is a big difference. And, not being a part of a group doesn't necessary mean person doesn't love others, even if he is not following your group.

John said to him, "Teacher, we saw someone who doesnt follow us casting out demons in your name; and we forbade him, because he doesnt follow us." But Jesus said, "Dont forbid him, for there is no one who will do a mighty work in my name, and be able quickly to speak evil of me. For whoever is not against us is on our side.
Mark 9:38-40

I agree. JW is wrong, as usual. A god - believer whose beliefs make them effectively a different sect or denomination is still a god - believer.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #23]

Thus I think cultural Christians are misguided.

Well, given that both Sir Richard Dawkins and Elon Musk consider themselves to be Cultural Christians, what is it about their overall expression into the world that you deem to being misguided?

Emphasis added, and nothing. I think they're doing it for a good reason. I think they want a better world, and what they're doing might help. I would even agree if they said that what they wanted, was to throw their lot in with Christians who have overall (but sometimes not, like with witch burnings and crusades) been a good influence on the world.

I just think it's misguided to think you can extract the teachings of a religion that are fundamentally bound-up with that religion, from that religion. The primary, central teaching of Christianity is that we're all horrid sinful things that need to beg for divine forgiveness to be saved. How do you accept that teaching in a secular manner? We're all horrid sinful things that are hopeless and can never be saved? Even if true, that idea is probably very destructive.

I think so. Cultural Christianity is like Feudal rulership. Culturally we like to have the castles, armour and history about, but we don't want to live like that anymore.

So we have Churches and Christmas, but not the anti - social and destructive tenets of the Doctrine.

[JehovahsWitness]

But there are some parts of the Bible that lean abusive.

Nobody's perfect: Is that an abusive teaching or an observable reality? I have yet to meet the person that has never made a mistake or needed to be forgiven.

.... I have met a few perfect people.

You have met a person that has never made a mistake even as a child? You have met a few peolpe that have never done or even thought anything wrong and has never needed to apologise a single time in their lives?

How have you verified that the above is the case? Were you in their company 24/7 since the day they were born observing their actions and simultaneously reading their thoughts?

Or not, would it be fair to say you believe that you have met a few perfect people, and that you have made a faith based claim devoid of any verfiable evidence?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to William in post #1]

If one believes the teaching of Gautama to be wise and good, is one a Cultural Buddhist? Why don't we hear of Cultural Buddhists? Is it because no one is trying to sneak Buddhism into every facet of our society?

[William]

[Replying to William in post #1]

If one believes the teaching of Gautama to be wise and good, is one a Cultural Buddhist?

Apparently, yes.

Why don't we hear of Cultural Buddhists?

Why do you think Sir Richard or Elon don't refer to themselves as Cultural Buddhists but do refer to themselves as Cultural Christians?

Is it because no one is trying to sneak Buddhism into every facet of our society?

Unlikely but sure - feel free to show this "sneaking" is actually happening. Both Richard and Elon appear to be upfront about what it is they are expressing into the society they exist within.

[Purple Knight]

You have met a person that has never made a mistake even as a child? You have met a few peolpe that have never done or even thought anything wrong and has never needed to apologise a single time in their lives?

I can only think they have made mistakes as a child, but I wouldn't know. I'm not sure you're accountable for what you do as a small child who doesn't have the faculties to understand right from wrong. But yes, I've met people who never had to apologise. One even often said that by just doing the right thing, they lived the kind of life they wanted, which was one in which they never had to apologise.

How have you verified that the above is the case? Were you in their company 24/7 since the day they were born observing their actions and simultaneously reading their thoughts?

No, but there has to be some threshold where I have to say, after observing this person for a long time, that it's very unlikely they ever made a mistake. It's just the falsifyability clause to the claim that everybody makes mistakes which is also a positive claim. I would say if you observe someone for a few hours a day, five days a week, for a year, and they have always had perfect judgment, there is no reason to assume they make mistakes. After careful observation, the vast majority do, but a few probably do not.

But let's have a thought experiment. If these people really are perfect, it's right for them to treat us horribly, because they don't need to be forgiven? It's right for the gambling slave in the story to grab people and shake them for money, if he doesn't owe anybody anything?

I certainly don't live like that. There are people who make certain mistakes I do not, and I don't treat them badly or make fun of them. I don't do it so others will hand me a free pass for anything I do wrong, but if I really can't help it I hope they will donate a little understanding. Just the same way I can understand if someone is not as smart as I am, and the answer to that algebra problem won't just magically occur to them, hopefully if I have really wracked my brains and tried to be considerate, and I still say something offensive, someone else might be able to understand that I am not as naturally polite and tactful as they are, and the perfect thing to have said simply will not occur to me.

But I hope they give me the understanding because I do need it, not because I actually don't need it and neither does anybody else but we all just give one another passes anyway.

[JehovahsWitness]

You have met a person that has never made a mistake even as a child? You have met a few peolpe that have never done or even thought anything wrong and has never needed to apologise a single time in their lives?

I can only think they have made mistakes as a child ...

Then they are not perfect.

How have you verified that the above is the case? Were you in their company 24/7 since the day they were born observing their actions and simultaneously reading their thoughts?

No...

Then this is essentially a mythical being you claim exists. I have never met anybody that claims to be perfect, nor anyone that has never needed to apologie for anything. You admit you cannot actually verify your belief such a person exists, so why should anyone, that does not share your faith based belief accept your claim as being factual?

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to William in post #1]

If one believes the teaching of Gautama to be wise and good, is one a Cultural Buddhist? Why don't we hear of Cultural Buddhists? Is it because no one is trying to sneak Buddhism into every facet of our society?

As one who has been there, done that and bought the baseball cap worn by recent Buddhist monks until the hair grows back, I can say, no. Just believing Buddhism doesn't make one a cultural Buddhist, even aside from the implication that this is all that is left after one has rejected the faith, as Dawkins is a cultural Christian and so am I to a certain extent.

Because it is the culture of a society that does this, not Faith in the prime religion of that culture. The bottom line seems to be that the attempt of the religious apologist to gain some spurious credit for a religion because it is part of a national; culture, never mind any possible attempt to make out that he is a still some kind of Christian, despite being an atheist. But truly I would put that beyond even the Christian apologist

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to William in post #36]

Unlikely but sure - feel free to show this "sneaking" is actually happening. Both Richard and Elon appear to be upfront about what it is they are expressing into the society they exist within.

Is being a Cultural Christian somehow more acceptable in this society than being a Cultural Something Else?