People in Crisis

[placebofactor]

I know from experience that many people without the knowledge of the Bible, in a last-ditch effort to put away things like drugs, alcohol, or some perverse lifestyle, have prayed to God, a God they do not know, and almost instantly they turned their lives around and began to study the Bible, and become a new person.

What I’m describing is one of the most striking and beautiful patterns in Christian experience, and it lines up with something deeply biblical. God will meet people long before they understand Him. In fact, the above is exactly how countless Christians throughout history have come to faith.

Many people in crisis will cry out to a God they barely know, and He will answer. This is one of the clearest demonstrations of his grace. They don’t know theology. They don’t know doctrine. They don’t know the Trinity, and most don’t even know what they’re asking for. But they know they’re at the end of themselves.

And God responds. This is not because their prayer is theologically precise. It’s because God is merciful, and He delights to rescue people who are drowning. Even before someone knows the Bible, the Holy Spirit can convict, draw, awaken, break chains, and create a hunger for truth.

This is not a “new revelation.” It’s God applying the truth of Scripture to a heart that hasn’t read it yet. In other words, the Holy Spirit prepares the heart before the mind catches up.

What usually follows? they turn to the Bible. Those in crisis don’t stay in vague spirituality; they don’t build a religion out of their experience, nor do they follow “any spirit.” What they do seek is the word, then Christ, truth, and holiness.

This is the proof that their experience was genuine. A true encounter with God always leads a person toward Scripture, not away from it.

[OneJack]

I quoted those narratives as ‘insights’ that will motivate the biblical believers and fanatics to come to and call upon the real and forever living Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation. The Lord is beside them always, though they do not see Him yet.

QUESTION

Why did you use the word "truth" when indicating that it can be found from reading something (to QUOTE YOU) "in the bible"? (see the complete quote below )

Take the truth from the Son’s declaration in the bible or call upon Jesus and listen to Him when He responds to your call.

PLEASE EXPLAIN what you meant by "Take the truth from the Son’s declaration in the bible ..."






JW

I do not deny the scripture, in this context. That verse is right; man was created in God’s image.

I’m not deviating from the Son’s declarations/teachings in the bible.

Mr. PF (placebofactor) is all ears for the truth in the bible. Since the bible is tainted with contradictions and falsities, I’m just trying to limit his search area for the truth he conceptualizes in the bible. The declarations of the Son of God are the best parts [in the bible] to choose for that search.

[JehovahsWitness]

Mr. PF (placebofactor) is all ears for the truth in the bible. Since the bible is tainted with contradictions and falsities, I’m just trying to limit his search area for the truth he conceptualizes in the bible. The declarations of the Son of God are the best parts [in the bible] to choose for that search

I see.

... the truth from the Son’s declaration in the bible ....

So, can you confirm for me (not for another poster) that your statement is not to be misunderstood and that you hold that there is, in reality NO truth about the son's declaration to be found in the bible

Thanks

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to OneJack in post #4]

@OneJack, Why do you limit it to what Jesus says?

In the Old Testament, the words "thus says the LORD" appear 417 times from Exodus to Zechariah.

In the New Testament, both Paul and Peter endorse the Scriptures as God's Word:

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 

2Pe 1:16  For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 
2Pe 1:17  For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” 
2Pe 1:18  we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 
2Pe 1:19  And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 
2Pe 1:20  knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 
2Pe 1:21  For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 

[OneJack]

Mr. PF (placebofactor) is all ears for the truth in the bible. Since the bible is tainted with contradictions and falsities, I’m just trying to limit his search area for the truth he conceptualizes in the bible. The declarations of the Son of God are the best parts [in the bible] to choose for that search

I see.

... the truth from the Son’s declaration in the bible ....

So, can you confirm for me (not for another poster) that your statement is not to be misunderstood and that you hold that there is, in reality NO truth about the son's declaration to be found in the bible

Thanks

Not all in the bible is true, that includes the declarations of the Son. We all need Jesus to know the truth in the bible.

[JehovahsWitness]

Not all in the bible is true, that includes the declarations of the Son. ...

Emphasis MINE

So when you say "not all are true", that implies you believe SOME are true. Is that your position? "Some (but not all) declarations of the Son in the bible are indeed TRUE.... not just "useful" or "helpful" but (to quote your words ) TRUE.

Is that an accurate statement of your real beliefs.

[OneJack]

Not all in the bible is true, that includes the declarations of the Son. ...

Emphasis MINE

So when you say "not all are true", that implies you believe SOME are true. Is that your position? "Some (but not all) declarations of the Son in the bible are indeed TRUE.... not just "useful" or "helpful" but (to quote your words ) TRUE.

Is that an accurate statement of your real beliefs.

Some are true [in the bible] based on the Lord Jesus' confirmation during His tutorial sessions, when He shepherded us for approximately 14 years at random. If Jesus isn't our Teacher, we'll remain ignorant of the truth in the Bible.

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #4]

@OneJack, Why do you limit it to what Jesus says?

In the Old Testament, the words "thus says the LORD" appear 417 times from Exodus to Zechariah.

Sorry for that lapse on my part, but the OT is not within the scope of my streamlining, in the context of my post. The status that not all in the OT is true, and falsities and contradictions are embedded therein, still holds.

In the New Testament, both Paul and Peter endorse the Scriptures as God's Word:

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 

2Pe 1:16  For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 
2Pe 1:17  For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” 
2Pe 1:18  we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 
2Pe 1:19  And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 
2Pe 1:20  knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 
2Pe 1:21  For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 

The Son's utterances in the NT rule out the misconception that the Bible is the Word of God. The apostles' epistles contain teachings that Jesus didn't teach them.

[tam]

Peace to you both,

I don’t establish truth by the pages of the Bible; the truth comes only from the Living God, whose name is Jesus, to whom we’ve heard and learned the truth about God, salvation, and eternal life.

From the 16th century onwards, multiple would be reformists have claimed unique personal revelations from Jesus, resulting in endless theologies including the one that your present debater follows.

The only way to find truth is to examine scripture with unadulterated honesty with an open mind, and an ability to accept correction when it is revealed to us.

Amen!

Hmm... I can see a couple of problems with this:

1 - People and religion have been examining scripture for at least the same amount of time, resulting in endless theologies (as I am sure you both know.) Examining scripture does not lead a person into all truth and has resulted in endless theologies.

We may find some truth by examining scripture. Though even in that - at the very least we should hold all things up against Christ's words, because He is the Truth and the One to whom God said to listen.

If, however, we want to be led into ALL truth, then the person we must come to, listen to, and follow is Christ. Listen to Him. Hold everything up to Him (He is the Light and the Truth and the Word of God.)

2 - Christ (whose name is Jaheshua) does speak. He is a living being. Living beings speak. He is the Living Word of God. How can the Living Word of God not speak? He said that His sheep will listen to His voice. He said His sheep know HIS VOICE. He said that He would call His sheep by name. (John 10:4, 16, 27) We have examples of Him speaking to disciples and apostles, often recorded in Acts... and of course the entire book of Revelation was given in spirit, and Christ spoke to John throughout.

Yes, there are also false christs, false apostles, even lying spirits. But that is why we are told to TEST the inspired expression. Nothing that contradicts Christ can be true... because Christ is the Truth, and He speaks the truth, and He is the One to whom God told us to listen. If something contradicts the truth, then it cannot be true. That is just logical, right? Also, God is love and what comes from Him is from love.


So test all things. Hold them up to the Light (Christ).


***

The other problem here in this particular exchange is that Onejack, himself, has not heard the voice of Christ. He claims that no one can hear the voice of 'Jesus' and live. What Onejack heard is his nephew (up to age 14) - whom Onejack claims to have been a manifestation of God.


This is a claim that can be tested though - because Christ said Himself that His sheep listen to His voice, that His sheep know His voice. His voice. He meant what He said. I can testify to the truth of this, and it is indeed 'scriptural', and it is indeed from love (who doesn't speak to those they love?). If you want to know the truth of this (or any other) matter, then come to the source - drink PURE water from - Christ Himself.

May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, so that you may know the truth of this matter from the One who is the Truth: Christ Jaheshua. May anyone who thirsts and anyone who wishes, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"


Peace again to you,
servant to the household of God and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[OneJack]

[Replying to tam in post #38]

The other problem here in this particular exchange is that Onejack, himself, has not heard the voice of Christ. He claims that no one can hear the voice of 'Jesus' and live. What Onejack heard is his nephew (up to age 14) - whom Onejack claims to have been a manifestation of God.

This is a claim that can be tested though - because Christ said Himself that His sheep listen to His voice, that His sheep know His voice. His voice. He meant what He said. I can testify to the truth of this, and it is indeed 'scriptural', and it is indeed from love (who doesn't speak to those they love?). If you want to know the truth of this (or any other) matter, then come to the source - drink PURE water from - Christ Himself.

I’m sure of unto myself that the Lord Jesus Christ is the real and forever living Almighty God who uttered to us the following:

“All of you who are listening, listen carefully! I am your Lord God. Who are you afraid of? I am the Almighty. Who are you intimidated by? Remember, when I am by your side, you have nothing to fear, nothing to worry about, because I will save you from any calamity if you trust in Me and regard Me as your salvation and eternal life. As your Lord, whom you alone will worship and none other, I am the one true God existing in heaven, earth, or universe. I created all things, I gave you life. Where will you go? If not to Me, you have nowhere else to go.”

[placebofactor]

[Replying to OneJack in post #39]

OneJack, I took your quote and lined it up with what is written in the King James Bible. Your comments echo several themes that appear throughout the Bible. Below, I’ve broken the statement into its major ideas and paired each one with a fitting KJV verse.

Your wrote,
1. “All of you who are listening, listen carefully!”
KJV Match: Isaiah 55:3 — “Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live…”

2. “I am your Lord God.”
KJV Match: Exodus 20:2 — “I am the LORD thy God…”

3. “Who are you afraid of? I am the Almighty.”
KJV Match: Isaiah 51:12 — “I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man…?” And Genesis 17:1 — “…I am the Almighty God…”

4. “Who are you intimidated by?”
KJV Match: Psalm 27:1 — “The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?”

5. “When I am by your side, you have nothing to fear, nothing to worry about.”
KJV Match: Isaiah 41:10 — “Fear thou not; for I am with thee… I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee…”

6. “I will save you from any calamity if you trust in Me.”
KJV Match: Psalm 91:14–15 — “Because he hath set his love upon me… I will deliver him… I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him…”

7. “Regard Me as your salvation and eternal life.”
KJV Match: Isaiah 12:2 — “Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid…” And Psalm 27:1 — “…The LORD is my light and my salvation…”

8. “As your Lord, whom you alone will worship and none other.”
KJV Match: Exodus 34:14 — “For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD… is a jealous God.”

9. “I am the one true God existing in heaven, earth, or universe.”
KJV Match: Deuteronomy 4:39 — “…the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.”

10. “I created all things.”
KJV Match: Isaiah 44:24 — “…I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone…”

11. “I gave you life.”
KJV Match: Genesis 2:7 — “…the LORD God formed man… and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life…”

12. “Where will you go? If not to Me, you have nowhere else to go.”
KJV Match: John 6:68 — “Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.”