How can I believe what I do not believe?

[Zzyzx]

How can I believe what I do not believe?

I am often counseled to “just read the bible and believe” and told that I must “believe” to be “saved from damnation”.

I cannot bring myself to believe the claims that are made – giants, and angels, and devils, and talking snakes, and every animal in the world in a boat, etc. Yet, Christians say over and over, “just believe” or “believe on faith alone” – and you will be “saved”.

Can I just suddenly believe if I get scared just before I die and be admitted to heaven? Is there any rule against that?

[Zzyzx]

Quick facts.

Facts??????

If those are facts, reindeer can fly.

The Bible is the best road map we have to God.

Is there any reason to accept that god is any more real than any other of the thousands that have been or are being worshiped by humans?

Jesus was the best and last prophet for Christianity.

Haven't there been a lot of people claiming to be Christian prophets during the last 2000 years? Are they all phony? Surely they are real prophets if they say so, aren't they?

Reading the Bible literally is impossible without God helping to promote incest as well as talking snakes, demons and angels and huge barges for all the animals of the world. Give me a break.

If the bible is not literally correct, are there any parts that can be trusted to be literal? Those parts that are not literal are . . . . what? Fiction? Myth? Legend? False?

Let's get specific:

1) Is resurrection literal?
2) Is virgin birth literal?
3) Is "life everlasting" (or any "afterlife") literal?
4) Is "walking on water" literal?
5) Is JC literal?
6) Is the flood story literal?
7) Is the "belly of a fish" story literal?

How does one know which ones are and which are not?

The Bible is there for us to glean moral messages and perhaps learn about living together in peace.

Do we see "living together in peace" emphasized in the bible or in Christian teachings? Isn't there a lot of denunciation of other religions, gods, and people who do not accept the Christian god? Isn't there more biblical mention of killing than there is of love?

As to conditions of Perfection, if you compare the numbers off good people to bad in our world you will find few evil people. A few crazies individuals no doubt but generally good people. Unless the criminals are out here and we in a jail then no further proof should be required.

This makes no sense at all.

The population is growing nicely and more search for God and study good and evil than ever. Life is good. God is reasonably happy.

You seem to be claiming to KNOW that god is "reasonably happy". How do you know that?

[McCulloch]

Jesus was the best and last prophet for Christianity.

emphasis mine.

You are aware that you disagree with the apostle Paul and others on this point. Search for the gift of prophesy in the NT. Jesus may have been the best, but certainly he was not the last, according to the writers of the NT. The Revelation to John is prophetic and came since the time of Jesus.

[Greatest I Am]

Quick facts.

Facts??????

If those are facts, reindeer can fly.

The Bible is the best road map we have to God.

Is there any reason to accept that god is any more real than any other of the thousands that have been or are being worshiped by humans?

GIA wrote
All gods lead to God.

Jesus was the best and last prophet for Christianity.

Haven't there been a lot of people claiming to be Christian prophets during the last 2000 years? Are they all phony? Surely they are real prophets if they say so, aren't they?

GIA wrote
You decide on that one.

Reading the Bible literally is impossible without God helping to promote incest as well as talking snakes, demons and angels and huge barges for all the animals of the world. Give me a break.

If the bible is not literally correct, are there any parts that can be trusted to be literal? Those parts that are not literal are . . . . what? Fiction? Myth? Legend? False?

GIA wrote
The Bible likely contains all of the above.

Let's get specific:

1) Is resurrection literal?
2) Is virgin birth literal?
3) Is "life everlasting" (or any "afterlife") literal?
4) Is "walking on water" literal?
5) Is JC literal?
6) Is the flood story literal?
7) Is the "belly of a fish" story literal?


GIA wrote
I believe in resurrection. One time
Virgin birth is not required.
Yes, there exists a non corporeal Heaven.
No water walking is believable.
Jesus's words sound real and are believable if understood.
No flood. This would show a deficiency in God's ability to create a Perfect man.
No fish that spit out people.

How does one know which ones are and which are not?

GIA wrote
Spiting fish is easy. Others may not be as clear. Pick and chose. Logic is good.

The Bible is there for us to glean moral messages and perhaps learn about living together in peace.

Do we see "living together in peace" emphasized in the bible or in Christian teachings? Isn't there a lot of denunciation of other religions, gods, and people who do not accept the Christian god? Isn't there more biblical mention of killing than there is of love?

GIA wrote
Negative is accentuated everywhere. Why would we expect differently here.
Love is good. Sex and violence sell better.

As to conditions of Perfection, if you compare the numbers off good people to bad in our world you will find few evil people. A few crazies individuals no doubt but generally good people. Unless the criminals are out here and we in a jail then no further proof should be required.

This makes no sense at all.

Poorly writen but there are many more good people than evil otherwise the world would not work. We would be in anarchy.

The population is growing nicely and more search for God and study good and evil than ever. Life is good. God is reasonably happy.

You seem to be claiming to KNOW that god is "reasonably happy". How do you know that?

On my one and only visit to Heaven, I could sence it. I also sensed a feeling of impatience and desire to rush things along. Like the end time might be nearing.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I Am]

Jesus was the best and last prophet for Christianity.

emphasis mine.

You are aware that you disagree with the apostle Paul and others on this point. Search for the gift of prophesy in the NT. Jesus may have been the best, but certainly he was not the last, according to the writers of the NT. The Revelation to John is prophetic and came since the time of Jesus.

I try to be careful with what is writen. I know of no prophesy that has ever truly come to pass, especially when the Bible was writen so long after the event of Jesus. These things are open to discussion.

Regards
DL

[McCulloch]

Jesus was the best and last prophet for Christianity.

emphasis mine.

You are aware that you disagree with the apostle Paul and others on this point. Search for the gift of prophesy in the NT. Jesus may have been the best, but certainly he was not the last, according to the writers of the NT. The Revelation to John is prophetic and came since the time of Jesus.

I try to be careful with what is writen. I know of no prophesy that has ever truly come to pass, especially when the Bible was writen so long after the event of Jesus. These things are open to discussion.

Hey, I'm willing to agree with you that Paul and John (or whoever were writing in their names) were writing falsehoods.

[Greatest I Am]

Jesus was the best and last prophet for Christianity.

emphasis mine.

You are aware that you disagree with the apostle Paul and others on this point. Search for the gift of prophesy in the NT. Jesus may have been the best, but certainly he was not the last, according to the writers of the NT. The Revelation to John is prophetic and came since the time of Jesus.

I try to be careful with what is writen. I know of no prophesy that has ever truly come to pass, especially when the Bible was writen so long after the event of Jesus. These things are open to discussion.

Hey, I'm willing to agree with you that Paul and John (or whoever were writing in their names) were writing falsehoods.

I said nothing of falsehood. I speak of interpretation.
Following Jesus's philosophy, I try to see if I can incorporate what I read with His teachings. It has to after all make sence.

Regards
DL

[alxolex]

How can I believe what I do not believe?

Well, you might be surprised to know that we humans are great self-deceivers. For example (and quite relevantly), there's a bit of social psychology that studies beliefs. The scientists discovered that if one acted contrary to one's own beliefs, one unconsciously 'adjusted' one's beliefs to fit their actions. This might sound counterintuitive, but these are the results of controlled double-blind scientific experiments that were replicated successfully.
And that's just one small example of how we can deceive ourselves...

I am often counseled to “just read the bible and believe” and told that I must “believe” to be “saved from damnation”.

I cannot bring myself to believe the claims that are made – giants, and angels, and devils, and talking snakes, and every animal in the world in a boat, etc. Yet, Christians say over and over, “just believe” or “believe on faith alone” – and you will be “saved”.

Some Christians do insist on literally believing all the bible (however untenable that is). Other Christians will have a personal religion that's loosely based on the bible. They will interpret the bible to their liking so as to portray a God that fits their concept of a loving God. They tweak their personal Christianity so as to not have to deal with:
1. The violent, angry, jealous God that's portrayed in the OT.
2. Jesus' promises that ALL their prayers will be answered, despite the fact that amputees don't regrow limbs.
3. Born-again Christians being the exclusive bunch to get to heaven, despite the thousands of world religions that exist.
4. The problems of interpreting the bible literally or figuratively.
5. The lack of consensus on the interpretation(s) of the bible.
etc., etc.
What this 'tweaking' reveals is that Christianity as presented in the Bible or by organized religion can hardly withstand logic and serious questioning of its assumptions.