Harry Potter

[adherent]

Do you think Harry Potter contains anti-Christian material?
Does it overall convey an anti-Christian feeling?

[elle]

Most of the arguments about whether Harry Potter is antiChristian focus on the magic in the books. But have you ever considered Harry's behavior and the kind of example he is setting for the readers? He isn't always honest about his activities, even with his friends. He always means to do what is right but sometimes the methods he employs to do this are questionable. I think this is more important than the fact that magic is used so much in the books.

If we are to say avoid Harry Potter books and movies because some of Harry's methods aren't as morally upright as we'd like, we'd have to avoid just about every book and movie ever.

Some Christians I've known have argued that Christians should do exactly that.

[OnceConvinced]

Most of the arguments about whether Harry Potter is antiChristian focus on the magic in the books. But have you ever considered Harry's behavior and the kind of example he is setting for the readers? He isn't always honest about his activities, even with his friends. He always means to do what is right but sometimes the methods he employs to do this are questionable. I think this is more important than the fact that magic is used so much in the books.

If we are to say avoid Harry Potter books and movies because some of Harry's methods aren't as morally upright as we'd like, we'd have to avoid just about every book and movie ever.

Some Christians I've known have argued that Christians should do exactly that.

Maybe they should do as a Christian lady I know does. She'll get magazines like the TV guide and snip out anything that might be deemed offensive to God. (which leaves the the magazine in shreds. )

[elle]

Most of the arguments about whether Harry Potter is antiChristian focus on the magic in the books. But have you ever considered Harry's behavior and the kind of example he is setting for the readers? He isn't always honest about his activities, even with his friends. He always means to do what is right but sometimes the methods he employs to do this are questionable. I think this is more important than the fact that magic is used so much in the books.

If we are to say avoid Harry Potter books and movies because some of Harry's methods aren't as morally upright as we'd like, we'd have to avoid just about every book and movie ever.

Some Christians I've known have argued that Christians should do exactly that.

Maybe they should do as a Christian lady I know does. She'll get magazines like the TV guide and snip out anything that might be deemed offensive to God. (which leaves the the magazine in shreds. )

That's both hilarious and sad at the same time. The ones I've known haven't gone to such weird lengths, but I knew quite a few Christians growing up that didn't have televisions in their homes, did not go to the movies (which in my town was the only form of entertainment besides going to a restaurant or Wal-Mart), and only read religious books and required school reading. My most conservative Christian friend went to prom with me and another friend and refused to dance and just stood in the floor watching us the entire time. When I went to her wedding reception this summer I found out it was because her church prohibits dancing, which I don't understand. I would start a separate thread to ask what basis that belief has but I'm much too lazy. Anyway, she has never owned or seen television except what was shown in class in school and the only secular book I ever saw her with was something called The History of the Dictionary. She still wound up getting science degrees (double major in physics and chemical engineering) but she's pretty adamantly against any secular fun which is why I no longer feel comfortable spending any time with her. I can understand why some Christians choose to be that way but I value open-mindedness and inclusion of other ideas over segregation ("sanctification," whatever) and protection from outside influence.

[Coyotero]

Maybe they should do as a Christian lady I know does. She'll get magazines like the TV guide and snip out anything that might be deemed offensive to God. (which leaves the the magazine in shreds. )

Wonder what it would look like if you did that to a bible.

[OnceConvinced]

but I knew quite a few Christians growing up that didn't have televisions in their homes,

You just reminded me of my sister. She has 8 kids. Home schools them. It's like they have their own little cult at home with their little religious rituals involved in everything. They didn't have a TV, but then they got one, but it is carefully monitored.

We were all there sitting and watching a movie. Well i wasn't really interested, I had my attention on other things and an ad break came on and one of the kids jumped up and switched off the TV. And I'm thinking "What the hell? Why did he just switch it off like that when about 9 other people were watching it?" Then a few minutes later he switches it back on again and resumes watching the movie. At the next ad break he does exactly the same thing. I realised then, why he was doing it and I found out that their parents forbid them to watch the ad breaks due to the fact there is lots of offensive advertising as well as adverts for adult TV shows later on in the night or week.

They're in their own little world. The kids are shielded from the world around them. Totally indoctronated. It's sad.

Wonder what it would look like if you did that to a bible.

Oh but sex, violence, murder, cruelty and genocide is perfectly acceptable if it's in the bible.

(I should imagine there would be very little of it left!)

[Coyotero]

but I knew quite a few Christians growing up that didn't have televisions in their homes,

You just reminded me of my sister. She has 8 kids. Home schools them. It's like they have their own little cult at home with their little religious rituals involved in everything. They didn't have a TV, but then they got one, but it is carefully monitored.

We were all there sitting and watching a movie. Well i wasn't really interested, I had my attention on other things and an ad break came on and one of the kids jumped up and switched off the TV. And I'm thinking "What the hell? Why did he just switch it off like that when about 9 other people were watching it?" Then a few minutes later he switches it back on again and resumes watching the movie. At the next ad break he does exactly the same thing. I realised then, why he was doing it and I found out that their parents forbid them to watch the ad breaks due to the fact there is lots of offensive advertising as well as adverts for adult TV shows later on in the night or week.

They're in their own little world. The kids are shielded from the world around them. Totally indoctronated. It's sad.

Scary to think of the shock they'll be in when they grow up and enter real life.

Wonder what it would look like if you did that to a bible.

Oh but if sex, violence, murder, cruelty and genocide is acceptable if it's in the bible.

(I should imagine there would be very little of it left!)

That's kind of my point.

[Jrosemary]

This topic is probably null and void--Rowling has long since confessed that she is herself a Christian and that she wrote Harry Potter with specifically Christian themes in mind. (See here.)

Meanwhile, I thought I'd share this article from Aish.com, a Jewish site firmly in the Orthodox camp. As a much more liberal Jew, I don't always agree with this site, but I like the articles, and I thought this one was relevant to the thread. It's finds similarities between the way Judaism and the Harry Potter series views free will.

You can find the original article here, but I'll quote it:

"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches...Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies...And the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not...And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... The one with the power to vanquish the dark lord will be born as the seventh month dies..." (Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, 841)

We feel an indistinct chill running down our spines as we read the lost prophecy uttered by Professor Trelawney to Albus Dumbledore in a room above the bar at Hog's Head Inn in the year of Harry Potter's birth. It was a prophecy that set Harry Potter on his life course.

Throughout the series J.K. Rowling has played with two conflicting themes: determinism and free will.The existence of the prophecy is an interesting twist in the Harry Potter odyssey. Throughout the series J.K. Rowling has played with two conflicting themes: determinism and free will. Free will has appeared as a strong guiding component in Harry's life; the Sorting Hat wanted to place Harry in Slytherin, but Harry chose Gryffindor, thus deciding what type of wizard he was to become.

But at the same time Rowling has utilized deterministic elements throughout: the wand chooses the wizard, and not the other way around. The lost prophecy is another aspect of the story that ushers in a both elements simultaneously. It is primarily deterministic; if Harry and Voldemort have been set against each other since before Harry was born, what choices did that leave Harry? Harry was destined to lead this final battle against Voldemort because "neither can live while the other survives."

But even within this highly deterministic prophecy, Rowling gives room for free will, leaving the prophecy slightly ambiguous. We later learn that the prophecy could have also referred to Neville Longbottom, but Voldemort chose Harry to be his ultimate foe because Harry was a half-blood like himself.

The issue of free will and determinism is one that has plagued religious and non-religious thinkers alike. Baruch Spinoza (1632-1677) was a Dutch philosopher who composed a philosophical system based on determinism. He believed that God and nature are synonymous and that nature is run on a pre-determined course. People are simply aspects of nature, and thus must follow this pre-determined course exhibiting no free will of their own. Spinoza's determinism has been adopted by some in the scientific community who feel that our actions are determined solely by our genes. We are essentially destined to live the lives of our parents and grandparents; our decisions are based on our internal programming.

It is a depressing outlook on life, and a counterintuitive one. We have all made decisions that went counter to our instincts. There are clearly many factors that go into our decision making, which is why many other scientists disagree with the determinists.

Jewish philosophy wrestles with the question of free will and determinism. Judaism claims that God knows everything that man will do. Furthermore, God's knowledge of my future actions implies that I must perform those actions. (Otherwise God will have false knowledge, which is clearly an impossibility.) But at the same time, free will is the cornerstone of Judaism. How can I be held responsible for my actions if I have not really caused them? And why should I bother to try to better myself if all actions have been pre-determined? So how can we reconcile free will with God's foreknowledge? Furthermore, if a prophet can predict future events, doesn't that imply that those events are determined?

Jewish philosophers have come up with many approaches, one of which is similar to Rowling's. Just as Rowling's prophecy was unspecific (allowing the possibility that it referred to Neville and not Harry), biblical predictive prophecies generally have an element of open-endedness. For example, Abraham was told that his children will be in servitude for 400 years. "Know for sure that your descendants will be strangers in a land not their own, and they will serve them, and they will cause them to suffer for 400 years" (Genesis, 15:13). God didn't reveal to Abraham that the Egyptians would enslave the Jews. According to Rabbi Saadiah Gaon, the Egyptians didn't have to volunteer; they chose to be the ones to do it. That is why they were held responsible in the end for their actions.

Moses Maimonides (1138-1204), the greatest medieval Jewish philosopher, suggests another solution to the problem of God's foreknowledge and free will. He explains that the question of God's knowledge curtailing human free will is based on a misunderstanding. It is based on the assumption that God's knowledge is like human knowledge, only greater. But God's knowledge is completely unlike any other form of knowledge. So yes, God knows what we will do, but that knowledge doesn't impede our free will. The paradox exists because we cannot fathom God's knowledge. (See The Laws of Repentance, 5:5.)

Another popular solution was propounded by Isaac ben Sheshet Perfet (1326 1408) in his Responsa collection (no. 118). He explains that God's knowledge is not causative. Just because God knows what man will do it doesn't mean that man isn't acting out of free will. So if I offer my three year old a choice between watching Barney and watching the news, I'm pretty confident in her selection. But that doesn't imply that I in any way caused her to choose Barney.

Judaism stands squarely on the side of free will. As the Torah says, "I have placed life and death before you, blessing and curse. Choose life so that you will live, you and your offspring" (Deuteronomy 30:19). Personal responsibility is the cornerstone of Judaism's view of reward and punishment. God judges us based on our actions and our ability to overcome our natures, given the infinite array of factors that comprise our unique life situation. As the Rambam states, "We know without a doubt that man's actions are in his own hands. God does not pull him [in one direction], nor does He decree upon him not to do this or not to do that" (Laws of Repentance, 5:5).

Perhaps Dumbledore sums up Judaism's position best when he explains, "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." (Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, 333)

[Jester]

Maybe they should do as a Christian lady I know does. She'll get magazines like the TV guide and snip out anything that might be deemed offensive to God. (which leaves the the magazine in shreds. )

Wonder what it would look like if you did that to a bible.

There's a cartoon in which someone does exactly that. By the time he's finished, the only thing left is the phrase "Jesus wept".

I thought it was funny.

[Lux]

I voted NO. Harry Potter is a work of fiction for kids. An enjoyable one, too.

You just reminded me of my sister. She has 8 kids. Home schools them. It's like they have their own little cult at home with their little religious rituals involved in everything. They didn't have a TV, but then they got one, but it is carefully monitored.

We were all there sitting and watching a movie. Well i wasn't really interested, I had my attention on other things and an ad break came on and one of the kids jumped up and switched off the TV. And I'm thinking "What the hell? Why did he just switch it off like that when about 9 other people were watching it?" Then a few minutes later he switches it back on again and resumes watching the movie. At the next ad break he does exactly the same thing. I realised then, why he was doing it and I found out that their parents forbid them to watch the ad breaks due to the fact there is lots of offensive advertising as well as adverts for adult TV shows later on in the night or week.

They're in their own little world. The kids are shielded from the world around them. Totally indoctronated. It's sad.

...Mom, is that you? That sounds like the story of one of my aunts. She has 8 kids (doesn't condone contraception), all home schooled, all carefully monitored by their parents in all their relationships and activities. It's really sad to watch. If one of them wants to read a book, they call their reverend and ask if that book is OK.

[sineporf]

Ultimately, if it offends you, don't watch/read it, instead of trying to ban the thng for your own selfish reasons.

Just a note, while I agree that it isn't, and that the best idea is just simply not to watch if it is, just how is those who think it should be banned or whatever selfish? Technically, althought it may appear like dictatorship, a person who would restrict such entertainment would do so to help other people? Their POV would be that people who look at the stuff are harming themselves and it is their duty to save them, isn't it?

They're selfish because THEY think it's wrong and harming, so therefore it MUST be to everyone else. Your statement just brings about thoughts in my head about those people trying to convert others to Christianity to save their souls or something like that. It's like the missionaries preaching and converting native peoples ... it's basicly implying: I'm right, you're wrong, you should follow what I follow so you can be saved. Things like that, the self-rightousness, makes me sick at times.

Harry Potter is far from being Anti-Christian. My wife is reading it right now and she's no different in her beliefs, although she may be quite entertained. Your logic in the matter is wrong, though. I believe Christianity is wrong, and in fact I know it is wrong because it brings about the death and destruction of so many people in its name. Now am I being selfish? Yes. Am I right? Yes. Being selfish isn't entirely a bad thing, if you know what you're aiming for. All these people were aiming for when they tried to get Harry Potter banned was that they feared they would lose control over people, because that's what religion really is.