What If...?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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What If...?

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Post by theStudent »

Currently, I am doing what was suggested by some on these forums.
I am researching information both for, and against evolution, and trust me - I am doing so objectively.
While I am still researching, I want to put this out, to hear the different views on it.

During my research I discovered that lately, just over the last decade or so, a lot of informations has been surfacing about fake fossils.
In fact it has now become common place for fossils sold at museums to be checked for genuineness.
I find this interesting.

Why now, is this happening?
Could it be that evidence as it always does, is now surfacing?

For example
Remember the dinosaur hoax - the one that was said to be put together using different bones?
It has recently been found out that it wasn't a hoax after all.
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/02/ ... ecies.html

That is quite interesting.

The fossils aren't the only things that were/are claimed to be fake.
There are the drawings, and pictures as well.
Right now, I am going through a very long document considered a case against some of Darwins picture illustrations.
But have you ever come across this one?

Pictures from the past powerfully shape current views of the world. In books, television programs, and websites, new images appear alongside others that have survived from decades ago. Among the most famous are drawings of embryos by the Darwinist Ernst Haeckel in which humans and other vertebrates begin identical, then diverge toward their adult forms. But these icons of evolution are notorious, too: soon after their publication in 1868, a colleague alleged fraud, and Haeckels many enemies have repeated the charge ever since. His embryos nevertheless became a textbook staple until, in 1997, a biologist accused him again, and creationist advocates of intelligent design forced his figures out. How could the most controversial pictures in the history of science have become some of the most widely seen?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Haeckel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haec ... eks4-6.jpg
English: The pictures illustrate Ernst Haeckel's biogenetic law. In the beginning embryos of different species look remarkable similar, later different characteristics develop. The images initiated controversies and charges of fraud.

All of this lends to a possibility.
Consdering the fact that fossils can be faked, we must accept the fact that Darwin, and other scientists could have lied.

My question here, isn't whether he did lie or not, but rather, Does this not place evolutionists in the same position as the Christians they claim are believing in fables?

Consider:
Christians accept the Bible, as the word of God.
Here are just a few facts about the Bible.
With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best-selling book of all time.
It has estimated annual sales of 100 million copies.
It has been a major influence on literature and history, especially in the West where the Gutenberg Bible was the first mass-printed book.
It was the first book ever printed using movable type.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

Archaeological findings of the Dead Sea Scrolls, also called the Qumran Caves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

The evidence is there however, that the book we hold in our hand today (the Bible), contains information written centuries ago.

Atheist call the book fables - the reason I have yet to find out.
Maybe one of the reasons is that they have not seen God, or seen him write any book - whatever.
So they claim that Christians' belief in them and what they present is blind faith, and belief in stories.

However, is this not the case with those who accept the theory of evolution, where all they have to go by, is what scientists claim to be evidence?

By the way...
No one, to this day have seen them recreate the theories.
Any data they give you on species, is usually what already existed (at least what I have come across so far).
As regards other claims, all we have are pictures, and claimed fossils, which could have been edited.

So evolutionists are really believing what men claim - without any substantial proof of their claim.
How is this different to believing a book?

And what if Darwin, and others lied?


I'm just interested in you different opinions and thoughts, on the above.
Here is a nice short video of someone's opinion. Reasonable too.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #311

Post by theStudent »

Kenisaw wrote:
theStudent wrote: [Replying to post 292 by Kenisaw]
Kenisaw wrote:Pardon me Busk, but I must make a clarification to your post that Student responded to. There is no known limit on what one species of animal could evolve into given enough time and mutations. A type of Bacterium could eventually evolve into a completely different species which could continue to evolve into a separate genus, family, order, etc. It could conceivably become a chordate in the distant future for example. Life uses 4 basic building blocks in genomes, so there is no known limit on what each life form could evolve into...
So would you provide that evidence for me please.
Since I haven't come across it.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc ... onvergence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_descent
Why are you giving me theories as evidence of other theories?
I asked for observed evidence - done in a lab, like the fruit fly experiment that only produced fruit flies.
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Post #312

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 298 by Kenisaw]
Kenisaw wrote:A bacteria can't turn into a fish, or a mammal, or a reptile, but it could turn into an animal that has gills, or has hair and feeds its young milk, or has scales and is cold blooded. It is not limited physically to remain in the bacteria family.
Could you explain this "turn into" phrase.
Are you talking about a metamorphosis?
Then this would be from birth to adulthood, right?
Kenisaw wrote:I mention this because I guarantee you Student read your remarks and thinks that a bacteria could never evolve into something that is no longer a bacteria, and that simply isn't true. A bacteria could become a different order of animal in the future...
I would like to see the practical evidence for this too - from cause to effect - not in theory.
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Post #313

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 301 by Kenisaw]
Kenisaw wrote:It does if they no longer fit within the defined bacteria spectrum. If a particular species of bacterium evolves a spinal column, it is no longer a bacterium, because bacterium do not have spinal columns.
Man, you sure have a lot of evidence to supply.
Please... don't hesitate to show me this one.
This sounds exciting.
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. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #314

Post by Wyvern »

theStudent wrote: [Replying to post 301 by Kenisaw]
Kenisaw wrote:It does if they no longer fit within the defined bacteria spectrum. If a particular species of bacterium evolves a spinal column, it is no longer a bacterium, because bacterium do not have spinal columns.
Man, you sure have a lot of evidence to supply.
Please... don't hesitate to show me this one.
This sounds exciting.
Considering all bacteria are single celled organisms it is by definition that they can not be chordates nor can they have spinal columns.

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Post #315

Post by Wyvern »

Kenisaw wrote:
By the way, in case it was never mentioned, have you noticed that you can't prove god by disproving evolution? Most believers don't seem to realize this, and I was just curious if you had...
I consider that so silly, I can tell you that no Christian on these forums have ever tried such folly.
We already proved God.
It's scientists that haven't disproved him, because God can't be falsified. Have you forgotten?
That's an idea that comes up in the mind of unbelievers who are trying so desperately hard, not to allow a divine foot in the door.
Speaking of desperate, we are not like Darwin and his fellow workers...
Please show the proof you have of gods existence. Why haven't you sent this proof to any and all scientific journals, to say the least you would get multiple Nobel prizes all at once. I think the people that have forgotten are the people that made the positive claim(i.e. god exists) also have the responsibility to provide evidence of their claim, as I hope you are well aware you can never prove a negative.
I said, Mutations can never be responsible for the complexity of life.
That's what I said.
Since you stated that science can not disprove god please go about disproving mutations can not be responsible for the complexity of life. Since you seem to think being unable to disprove something is proof for it then your own statement is proof for mutations.

I think many people even the unbelievers as you call them
would be overjoyed if you could come up with proof of there being a god. Speaking of desperate it is in fact the religions that have been fighting scientific progress for literally thousands of years.
You never responded.
Why ask a question, and when you get an answer, you say nothing.
I would have been glad to receive a response.
In fact, I would still welcome a response, so feel free to do so.
I think I can handle your question about entropy and thermodynamics as regards evolution. It's really quite simple, in a CLOSED system entropy will in fact increase over time. Can you think of anything outside of our planet that might be introducing energy into the earth?

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Post #316

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 307 by theStudent]
theStudent wrote:
Mutations? HA. What a joke.
In order to make their religious beliefs seem more likely to themselves, they may say that the pursuit of science is a joke.

That level of denial is astounding.
Of course it isn't.

The fact that you KNOW about hoaxes and mistakes in science is that science is AUTO-CORRECTING. We can trust science. That doesn't mean that all scientists are honest or perfect. But just because there are MANY things that haven't panned out to be true, doesn't mean that ALL of the scientists and ALL of the findings of science are flawed or false.

You over-generalize to an astounding level in order to confirm your religious bias for creationism. And by so doing, you deny a HUGE amount of reality.

You might want to study THIS book:



:)

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Post #317

Post by arian »

JoeyKnothead wrote: From Post 275:
theStudent wrote: I have not seen any other species beside fruit flies.
Has the experience presented any evidence of new species that were not flies?
No, because what you're getting at here is the notion of a new species creating a new Order (Diptera 2.0?), skipping - no - running at a sprint past Genus along the way! It just ain't done in polite society.

New species have been observed, numerous times, and are well documented. Just because a new species doesn't create a new genus at your whim does not mean a new species ain't new.
Darn right buddy, if it's new, .. it's new. I remember back in '74 my first New-car, a '68 Cutlass, 350ci 4 barrel, and the previous owner put headers on it. A 16 year old Detroit Michiganders dream new car. I would rev the engine at every stop-light so everyone could see me-new car, .. sheeeet-maan, I'ees bad y'now!?
JoeyK wrote:The taxonomic ranks are fuzzy, we can concede that, and still not lose sight of what is observed.
You know it bro, .. it sure is fuzzy and hard to swallow too! I still can't get over that I'm an ape? Not even a real ape, I'm told I'm still evolving. One day though, .. I WILL become a full blown ape, Ah swear! Well, .. as soon as I get over the fear of the dark and get out of this stinkin' cave, I ain't got any room to paint on, .. it's been like what, .. million and a half years or so?
JoeyK wrote:What's life made up of?
Aaahh, .. wait, i know this one!? Life is made of quantum specks of bosons, glue-ons and clept-ons with right-spin, left-spin and the black hole ones with no-spin!? Oh, .. and it's all in Aether.
Did I get it right?
JoeyK wrote:Forgetting about the stuff that makes up atoms, we see that atoms make chemicals, and chemicals make life.
Not to mention the stuff that makes the "stuff that makes up atoms that make chemicals, and chemicals make life?

Dare we even think about the stuff the stuff is made of, that makes the "stuff that makes up atoms that make chemicals that make life" !?
JoeyK wrote:Nothing in this chain of events violates our senses - where the precursor to life is rationally seen to be the stuff that life is made of.

We see this played out over millions upon billions of lifeforms, such that it is indeed reasonable and rational to at least consider that life may have come from the stuff that life's made of. We have reams upon reams of scientific data in support of this almost spectacularly obvious notion.
So what are you saying buddy, that it all started with what life is made of like a universe that was squeezed down to the size of whatever the atom is made of, .. and that made life?

That the creation IS the Creator? So why the BB and Evolution theories? Why ask why when everything is what it is?
The sun is the sun, the moon is the moon, life is life, and as you said, it is obvious. So why all this wasted money, time and effort to come up with a theory "how" it was made or "who or what" made it?

Why not spend all them Billions and Billions of $$$$$$ on tractors to help the starving build dams and plant their own crops? Why is it soooo darn important to know if we evolved, or some space-bacteria came from another dimension and evolved us? Life is made of the thing life is made of, .. why all this grave robbing, all this BB-Evolution bs, let's do science and see what is before us and what we can do with it? I mean people are starving, locking a few Negros in cages at the zoo will NOT feed the starving. Calling me an animal, an ape and my cousins rats will not feed the starving either, nor will it create more jobs.

Also, isn't it funny how the more people we have, the less jobs are available?

JoeyK wrote:What does the theist offer us?

"God made life".


Heeeyy, .. come on buddy old pal, is that fair? I mean how many godsss are there?

Zeus-Jupiter-King of Gods
Poseidon-Neptune-God of the Sea
Hades-Pluto-God of the Underworld
and thousands more, made of stone, wood, paper or plastic, .. and none of these are claiming "made life". They all have serious family issues, incest, murder and other life-issues to deal with. So just saying God made life, I mean wow, you might just say a cat made life, .. I'm sure there is a cat god out there somewhere?

JoeyK wrote:That's fine to think about, but of what is God made?


Does it really matter? Look around you, tens of thousands of gods, and the peoples that have the most gods are the worst off! They worship even rats as gods, and the rats get more food than the children in many cases.

I mean I understand if they believe they will come back as rats in another life, but what if by some freak of nature they come back as human children, and the children-gods will remember how they were rejected!? I guess they never thought of that. Like when I ask Mormons as to who is Mormo, .. and they can't answer because they have no clue!

Ahh, .. religion and their gods, and now we have the most Powerful Religion involved in science, hell-bent on scientifically proving that the God mentioned in the Bible is NOT the Creator of the universe, but their own version of godsss are.

Helloooo, .. where in the Bible does God say He cares whether we believe He created the universe or not? All He cares is that we love one another, .. not to hurt each other. He doesn't care if we believe Jiminy-Cricket created the universe, as long as we love one another, and help each other.

JoeyK wrote:Can we show God's made of anything other'n imagination?


No, imagination is made by God the Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit, .. just as our imagination is made by our mind/spirit.

You need a mind to imagine, but those imaginations will NEVER become your mind. But todays religious-science has a problem understanding between finite and Infinite.
Now we can "imagine" we are apes, and go with it and start acting like animals, but what a waste of mind/spirit that is. Once "imagination" starts ruling our mind, like in religion, then that man is doomed already.

One will say: "I imagine my god/gods like this" and another says,; "No, god/gods are like this, .. and can do this"

If people would just stop and THINK for a second and see that it is the MIND that asks, that imagines, .. the imagination is finite, can change at our will.

JoeyK wrote:Sentience. In order to think stuff into existence one needs a physical brain. Here again, we have reams upon reams of scientific data in support of this almost spectacularly obvious notion.

Only the theist can't see that in order to think a physical world into existence, one needs a physical world in order to do it.


Close, real close, except like I said, "finite/physical cannot create (become) Infinite. And there has to be an "Infinite" for even One finite thing to exist."

Infinite-Eternal needed something finite to be able to create other finite things, and this is when He, that is Infinite created laws, He defined a language, or uttered a "Word", this is now finite because words are defined, it has a definite meaning, a beginning and an end.

Through the Word (specifically defined language) God was able to create everything else, and everything was and is, and will be created by Gods Word.

JoeyK wrote:Any of y'all ever just sit on the couch and think "I need me another beer", and poof, another beer magically pops into your hand? And we live in this physical world!

If you have, please tell us all your secret! Or just poof me one here into mine


Things like that happen all the time, maybe not a beer, but things far greater than that, what we would definitely call miracles.

But I know what you mean Joey, and here is the problem; Just as man was getting ready to learn how to "create" like God, Satan screwed it up for us by deceiving Eve. This threw us off a good 6,000 years, because by now, as I have said many times before, .. we should be renovating planets in other star-systems, in other galaxies like we renovate a room to welcome a newborn into our lives.

Creating is NOT easy, just ask the creators at Honda working on ASIMO the robot. Now that is actually EXTREMEMLY EASY compared to what went into creating man, all from scratch, taking quantum dust particles to create the atoms and so on, all the way to a fully functional human. But there was something even our Creator could not create, Adams mind/spirit, and THAT He gave of Himself. (you know the story, right?)

The dust/finite part of Adam is one thing, but giving him a mind with free will is completely different. That part is God the Infinite and Eternal One.

JoeyK wrote:Conclusions?

To propose, within a scientific discussion that it's more rational to believe some magic being snapped his non-physical fingers and poofed us into existence is the least rational argument of the theist.


Yeah, I haven't heard a good explanation of any theist either, they are too busy justifying their own personally created god/gods to know and understand our Infinite and Eternal Father, our God, .. who He is, and How He creates. Yep, .. "Pooofff!!" is just about as far as they understand.

But if you get real scientific, and if you are able to step outside of religious indoctrinations that we been subjected to for the past 6,000 years, understanding, or coming to "know God" is not that difficult. Simply because we really were created in His Image, so God is really not far from any of us just as it is written in the Bible.

But sadly, because definitions of words have been so distorted, beaten, degraded and spit upon, and then crucified and even buried, that now ONLY those who seek really hard with true intentions to find and to come to know God can understand. I mean it's like getting to be "born again", in the newness of our mind, not in the finite, physical flesh, but as a new creature who knows when he is walking in the spirit and when he's walking in the flesh, .. you know what I mean?

And oh boy, .. I tell you, that only God Himself through His Word could do, to bring someone like us who have been blinded by religions for so long, to be able to stand up as one from the grave and dare think using our mind.

God bless Joey, love you man!
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root.

Henry D. Thoreau

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Post #318

Post by Bust Nak »

Kenisaw wrote: Of course. We'd have a new line of nucloid, but it would not be a eukaryotes.
So why not apply the same thinking to a potential new line of bacteria? It could be lung breathing, milk producing but it would not be an animal.
Semantics in my mind. My opinion is that they are not dinosaurs just like dinosaurs weren't reptiles. If we can call birds "dinosaurs" we could call them "reptiles" just as easily.
We can and we should, birds ARE reptiles, because birds are dinosaurs and dinosaurs are reptiles.
Then say birds are the last common ancestor. Why stop at dinosaurs?
We shouldn't stop at dinosaurs, birds are Chordata, birds are animals, birds are Eukarya and birds are life. We go all the way.

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Post #319

Post by Kenisaw »

theStudent wrote: [Replying to post 291 by Kenisaw]
Kenisaw wrote:Except there are 7 billion people on the planet. Add up those 60 that each person has and suddenly you are talking about a dozen mutations AT EACH SITE OF THE GENOME in each generation. That's a lot of mutations. That doesn't count the mutations that were so lethal that a human died in utero and wasn't even born.
Why are you speaking about mutations as though they are responsible for the 8 billion people on the planet?
Where is your evidence to support this?
The experiments done were on fruit flies and cattle, and the results were fruit flies and cattle, many in really bad shape - like ...
You have no evidence to show, to say that mutations were responsible for the variety of organisms on earth - including humans.
:shock:

What in the wide, wide world of sports are you talking about? Where did you get the idea that I was claiming mutations are responsible for today's population in numbers??? I was pointing out how many total mutations to the human genome happen in each generation of the general population, to show that even if most mutations are bad or neutral that still creates a large actual number of beneficial mutations. Here is the whole conversation, your comments in clue:
Mutations result from damage to DNA which is not repaired, errors in the process of replication, or from the insertion or deletion of segments of DNA by mobile genetic elements.
Most mutations are damaging or harmful.
Few mutations are neutral which is one that does not affect an organism's ability to survive and reproduce
.
So most mutations are damaging or harmful. Which means that there are some that aren't. "Most" is not "all", Student. Here's the math on mutations: Each person receives about 60 mutations from their parents when they are conceived. That's not a lot when you think about the 3 billion positions in the human genome, and since each position is a pair that means there are 6 billion places a mutation could occur. So 60 places in 6 billion is not a lot.

Except there are 7 billion people on the planet. Add up those 60 that each person has and suddenly you are talking about a dozen mutations AT EACH SITE OF THE GENOME in each generation. That's a lot of mutations. That doesn't count the mutations that were so lethal that a human died in utero and wasn't even born.
Never in a zillion years.
We don't need a zillion years to get a zillion mutations...
Kenisaw wrote:No, not in 100 years of research. But there is no evidence anywhere that evolution has ever worked that fast. To expect to see it happen live in just one human lifetime is an impossible standard. Evolution doesn't work that fast, so saying a fly didn't turn into a bird is NOT an argument because everyone that knows anything about evolution would tell you that isn't going to happen. Of course your creationist websites whine about it, which you parroted here in your post, but as I said everyone that knows anything doesn't make such a basic mistake...
Firstly, I don't need creationist to tell me anything.
Secondly, I like to do my own research, which is what I do.
Thirdly, 98% of the information I posted is not from creationist websites, but from general information websites, scientific websites, or sites having a biased leaning toward evolution.
Fourth, Those site are the ones that admit the information I posted, which is why you cannot dispute it, as being false.
Fifth, you are the one using evolution websites, to try to establish your belief.
Sixth, I am no idiot, or two year old, who needs someone to think for me.
Seventh, that's it...
If you want to maintain that 98% of your information comes from non-creationist websites, go ahead. We will take your word for it, even though you've given several links to pseudo-science websites in the past, and your comments mirror thousands of creationists before you who have trotted out the same arguments.
Kenisaw wrote:You've been told all this before by the way, so I find it dishonest of you to make claims about it with Bust Nak when I've already shown you the errors of your understanding...
I made a post, you, and everyone else kept silent, Bust Nak responded - again demonstrating his honesty, but it made me wonder, if he had now become the spokesman for everyone.
I'm taking it up with whoever.
Now that you have responded, I will take it up with you.

I said, Mutations can never be responsible for the complexity of life.
That's what I said.

If you have already shown me the errors of my understanding, then try and try again.
Maybe you might succeed, because I am not seeing them.
I'll give you a summary of posts from previous threads: DNA is responsible for the physical manifestation of living things. We know DNA mutates all the time. We know these mutations change the physical manifestation of the organisms that have them. We know all DNA is made up of just four basic components: adenine (A), cytosine (C), guanine (G) and thymine (T). We can see via the fossil record how the physical manifestations of living things have changed over time, including changes large enough to go from fish to land animal to reptiles to other animals like mammals and birds. We can see in the DNA of living things how all life is related.

Mutations ARE responsible for the diversity of life on Earth. What other possible explanation can there be?
Kenisaw wrote:You can see the genetic remains of the LUCA in the genomes of all living things.

You can see the evolution of species into new ones in the fossil record, AND in the genomes of all living things...
No I cannot.
Fine, you cannot see it. Why are we still talking about it then?
I can see the work of a master designer, in the blueprint of life.
Great. Prove this designer exists. Then prove this designer actually designed anything (for all you know it exists and didn't have anything to do with it).
I never saw a brick building build itself.
Since brick buildings aren't alive I fail to see the point in that comparison.
Nor have I ever seen code write itself.
DNA and RNA are not codes. Before you get responding, I realize that some literature will refer to it as "like a code". They are using "code" as a metaphor so that people can understand what they are trying to say. That doesn't make it an actual code. Look up the definition of code and see for yourself.
Quite the opposite, I have seen someone write code.
Since DNA and RNA aren't codes that doesn't matter in this conversation.
Let someone experienced in that, confirm it to you...
Bill Gates, The Road Ahead
DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any software ever created.
If you have ever studied code, you would know it is a highly complex language.
It is not ABC.
DNA is like a code...Just like I told you above, eh...
There is no way in science, that it is possible for language - written code to create itself.
There is no scientifically possible way for random chance to create or lead to a complex written code in a complex system, to produce other complex systems in complex organisms.
It isn't a code. It's chemistry. It's four basic pieces organized in various sequences that result in the chemical combinations that make up living things. That's all it is.
You wrote:But please, by all means, tell us why evolution violates thermodynamics...
I responded and wrote: Entropy is the measure of disorder and randomness in a system.
The starting point is the most organized you can get.
So say you start at a point of randomness or disorder, you can never reach a point of order. You can only end up with more disorder.
So when you say this.
Kenisaw wrote: Second, yes we can say with 100% certainly that life can happen via "blind chance". There is nothing about life that violates any law of the universe. Everything about life is chemically possible. We don't know how it specifically happened, but we do know it is possible. Please retract your statement.
That is wrong, because there are some laws that cannot be broken. Thermodynamics, being one of them.
You have the classic and often seen misunderstanding of the 2nd law of Thermo that all creationists seem to have, which is that the 2nd law applies to a closed system. The Earth is not a closed system. The Sun provides a source of energy to the planet. Please review the 2nd Law and understand what it is saying.

And think about it from a common sense point of view - If what you say is true, how can a life form possibly create another life form (create order)? How can plants grow (more order)? Stop and think what your supposedly non creationist, all scientific websites are telling you before you go regurgitating it to people who know better. I don't suppose you happen to recall WHAT website told you this, do you? Nah, probably not...FYI - Most creationist sites don't even push the 2nd Law complaint anymore because they realized how misinformed it is...
That's not too complex for you, is it?
Let me try to simplify it.
DNA

Structure of DNA
DNA is comprised of chains of chemical subunits called nucleotides, each of which contains one nitrogenous base: adenine (A ), thymine (T ), cytosine (C ), or guanine (G ). The design instructions in DNA are spelled out as particular sequences of these four bases. This is analogous to conveying instructions in printed books by particular arrangements of the twenty-six letters of the alphabet. In the case of genes, however, there are only four letters in the alphabet. Hundreds of nucleotides are linked in a DNA chain in a sequence that spells out instructions for a single gene.


"Analogous to". It's not a code...

Control of gene expression
DNA information is expressed as proteins and their feedback networks. The information resident in nucleotide sequences is used not only for replicating DNA, but also for synthesizing proteins. Proteins are chains of a few hundred subunits called amino acids, of which there are twenty kinds. The amino acids in a protein are arranged in a specific sequence by cellular machinery that translates the genetic information coded in DNA. The sequence of nucleotides, read three at a time, corresponds to the sequence of amino acids in a protein. The amino acids differ among themselves in chemical character so that every kind of protein differs in chemical character from others. For the work of the human body many thousands of proteins are needed, each having a highly specific function like catalyzing a chemical reaction or transporting oxygen.

Differentiation into specialized cells requires the control of gene expression. The development of a human being starts with a single-celled, fertilized egg. As the egg divides into two cells, and as successive rounds of cell division occur, every progeny cell receives a complete copy of parental DNA. In the first few divisions, the cells produced are identical in all observable characteristics, but as cell division continues, cells are produced that differ in phenotype even though all the cells continue to have identical DNA. In this differentiation, particular genes are controlled by blocking their expression, not by changing nucleotide sequence. Regulatory molecules block particular sites in DNA preventing translation of the corresponding genes into their products. Specific blocking thus generates different patterns of gene expression. Changing patterns of gene expression produce distinct populations of cells, diverging in phenotype as differentiation progresses. Eventually, differentiation in humans produces more than two hundred cell types, organized into different tissues and organs. In any one cell type the majority of its approximately 35,000 genes is repressed, leaving a small subset of expressed genes that differs from the subsets expressed in other cell types.

Yep, nothing but chemistry in action, like we've been explaining to you for months now.
DNA: Definition, Structure & Discovery

Deoxyribonucleic acid or DNA is a molecule that contains the instructions an organism needs to develop, live and reproduce. These instructions are found inside every cell, and are passed down from parents to their children.

DNA structure
DNA is made up of molecules called nucleotides. Each nucleotide contains a phosphate group, a sugar group and a nitrogen base. The four types of nitrogen bases are adenine (A), thymine (T), guanine (G) and cytosine (C). The order of these bases is what determines DNA's instructions, or genetic code. Similar to the way the order of letters in the alphabet can be used to form a word, the order of nitrogen bases in a DNA sequence forms genes, which in the language of the cell, tells cells how to make proteins. Another type of nucleic acid, ribonucleic acid, or RNA, translates genetic information from DNA into proteins.

The entire human genome contains about 3 billion bases and about 20,000 genes.
Awesome!
Chemistry is certainly awesome isn't it.
Let's take that last bit on nucleotides...
If I am quoting a creationist website, get used to the fact that you have opposition.
I am simply presentation what has already been stated. Deal with it
But I thought you didn't need creationists telling you anything. What a fascinating contradiction.

But you are indeed accurate that you are presenting what has already been stated. Understanding it, or researching it to see if it is accurate is the part that you seem content in ignoring completely...
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/02/th ... 03194.html.

And so I say again - no root - no start to evolution.
And again - Mutations can never be responsible for the complexity of life.
A lot has happened since 2007. Did you bother to verify any of this? Of course not...
[Replying to post 292 by Kenisaw]
Also, on this one
Kenisaw wrote:There is no known limit on what one species of animal could evolve into given enough time and mutations. A type of Bacterium could eventually evolve into a completely different species which could continue to evolve into a separate genus, family, order, etc. It could conceivably become a chordate in the distant future for example. Life uses 4 basic building blocks in genomes, so there is no known limit on what each life form could evolve into...
I have a few questions:
How can mutations be responsible for evolution?
Can evolution work without reproduction?
Are you saying that species turn into other species?
If so, can you provide evidence of that?

Note*
I have seen the results of the fruit fly experience.
I am not referring to fly species into another fly species.
Answered all this above already. Refer to the other parts of this post...

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Post #320

Post by Kenisaw »

Bust Nak wrote:
Kenisaw wrote: Of course. We'd have a new line of nucloid, but it would not be a eukaryotes.
So why not apply the same thinking to a potential new line of bacteria? It could be lung breathing, milk producing but it would not be an animal.
It would be considered an animal in the general sense, even though it did not come from the line that produced all the current animals on Earth.
Semantics in my mind. My opinion is that they are not dinosaurs just like dinosaurs weren't reptiles. If we can call birds "dinosaurs" we could call them "reptiles" just as easily.
We can and we should, birds ARE reptiles, because birds are dinosaurs and dinosaurs are reptiles.
You should just call them all self-replicating molecules then. I don't care for the cladist line of thought, but you certainly seem to embrace it, so have at it...
Then say birds are the last common ancestor. Why stop at dinosaurs?
We shouldn't stop at dinosaurs, birds are Chordata, birds are animals, birds are Eukarya and birds are life. We go all the way.
Whatever. You do it your way, and I'll do it mine.

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