bernee51 wrote:
I am not a sinner and I don't know your god
Wow! And you think Christians are arrogant! At least we recognize that we are not perfect and make mistakes. If you did know my God (who is quite willing to be yours if you would set your pride aside and admit that you aren't pure and holy and perfect in goodness and love), then you would never make such a statement. I humbly admit that I am a sinner and I am so glad that I know Jesus.
Here's another comment from above:
Hmm...Overcomer, that is not really fair. You are using a question-begging definition. It's as if someone says "true love never ends in divorce" and when you point out a case where two people who started out loving each other but then got divorced, he says that theirs was not true love... using as "evidence" the fact that they got divorced. Your argument looks like this:
"Christians are defined as a kind of people who never abandon the Christian religion. Therefore, a Christian will never abandon the Christian religion."
Clearly this is not an argument but a (questionable) definition.
Actually, you're the one not being fair. You have set forth an analogy re: true love that has nothing to do with what I said as if you think it in some way might refute what I wrote However, it doesn't.
Also, I didn't say that Christians are the kind of people who will never abandon the Christian religion. I said that a Christian is a person who is in a relationship with Jesus Christ and could never deny that he exists any more than that Christian could deny that his mother or father, sister or brother exists. You have put words in my mouth and changed what I said because you have no argument to refute it. Changing what I said so that you could come up with some kind of psuedo-refutation represents a fallacious argument.
Then there's this statement. I'm sorry. I forget who it was by, but here it is:
"To be a christian is to BELIEVE that god,holy spirit and jesus EXIST and CLAIM to have a PERCEIVED relationship with god through jesus through the PERCEIVED filling of the holy spirit"
I don't think you have the expertise to be able to assess my relationships with Jesus or anybody else. You have not provided a refutation of what I said, only your personal opinion, built on a lack of knowledge and experience. Just because you don't know Jesus, that doesn't mean that he isn't real and that there aren't others who know him. I think you should stick to what you know, not what you surmise and not what you would like to believe.
trencacloscas wrote the following:
Sure. 1700 years of assassination, corruption, Inquisitions, Crusades, collaboration with fascist authorities, oppression, slavery, superstition, burning witches, indigen genocides, holy wars and every possible crime committed under the pious name of God and The Bible... That's what I call "meaningful".
This is a tired old argument, one that I have addressed elsewhere on this board as well as others. There are people who do things in the name of God, calling themselves Christians, who don't know God at all and are not in a relationship with Jesus Christ.
And whether you people like it or not, there is a difference between someone is really a Christian and someone who merely calls himself a Christian. There are true Christians and false ones. Atheists always seem to focus on the false ones and never admit that the true ones have done some mighty fine things in this world. Not looking at ALL the evidence and information and examples is a dishonest way of approaching any topic.
I could list some of the horrible things that atheists have done in the world. Would you, as an atheist, want to be tarred and feathered along with them if you yourself are innocent of the crimes? If I point to a man who says he is an atheist who molests children, would you like me to then make the statement that all atheists are pedophiles? That's what you are doing when you point to people who call themselves Christians who do vile things in the name of God but who, in truth, are NOT true Christians following God and living out the love of Christ in their lives. That's an invalid argument as well.
Also, trrencaclosas, you made the comment elsewhere that you used to be a Christian. But you didn't explain why you think that. I told you that a real Christian has a relationship with Christ and cannot suddenly say he doesn't exist. Are you saying you knew Christ intimately and then decided that you were wrong, that he was a figment of your imagination? I repeat. You may have gone to a church and given some credence to Christian beliefs, but YOU NEVER KNEW JESUS. And if you never knew Jesus personally and interacted with him and heard his voice and fellowshipped with him, then you were never a Christian. You merely thought of yourself as one and attended a church. I"m sorry, but you haven't refuted what I said either.
Whether you people like it or not, there is a difference between true Christians and false ones. Pointing to the false ones is no argument against who Jesus Christ was and what he did on the Christ and why he did it (out of sacrificial love).
I think that, given the fact that I know Jesus personally and fellowship with him constantly, that gives me a better idea of who he is and what he did than any of you have. Atheists talking about God, Jesus, Christians, Christianity and the Bible are like a bunch of blind men describing a sunset. They haven't got a clue and they always get it wrong!
The good news is none of you has to remain in the dark. God will welcome you if you welcome him. And I can attest to the fact that knowing him is wonderful. I highly recommend it!
