Big Bang Theory

[Confused]

Although the big bang theory is famous, it's also widely misunderstood. A common misperception about the theory is that it describes the origin of the universe. That's not quite right. The big bang is an attempt to explain how the universe developed from a very tiny, dense state into what it is today. It doesn't attempt to explain what initiated the creation of the universe, or what came before the big bang or even what lies outside the universe. Did some intentional action lead to the creation?
Another misconception is that the big bang was a kind of explosion. That's not accurate either. The big bang describes the expansion of the universe. While some versions of the theory refer to an incredibly rapid expansion (possibly faster than the speed of light), it's still not an explosion in the classic sense.
Summing up the big bang theory is a challenge. It involves concepts that contradict the way we perceive the world. The earliest stages of the big bang focus on a moment in which all the separate forces of the universe were part of a unified force. The laws of science begin to break down the further back you look. Eventually, you can't make any scientific theories about what is happening, because science itself doesn't apply.
At the earliest moments of the big bang, all of the matter, energy and space we could observe was compressed to an area of zero volume and infinite density. Cosmologists call this a singularity.

This is the point where things seem to get sticky for me. What caused the Singularity to expand into the Big Bang Theory? And what was the origin of the Singularity? Because of the limitations of the laws of science, we can't make any guesses about the instant the universe came into being. Instead, we can look at the period immediately following the creation of the universe. Right now, the earliest moment scientists talk about occurs at t = 1 x 10-43 seconds (the "t" stands for the time after the creation of the universe). In other words, take the number 1.0 and move the decimal place to the left 43 times.

So up for debate, is there any way we can actually study the Singularity and the cause of said Singularity leading to the "Big Bang"? Do we need to insert a God into the process to justify the statement "The universe was created" or is there a competing natural process that can explain it. While I realize that most can say that just because the universe came into existence doesn't mean we need insert a creator to make it happen, take note, I am aware of this. However, this being a religious debating forum, I am looking for any competing religious justification as well and any competing scientific justification. Hence, placing this thread in the "Science and Religion" forum.

So to clarify: For debate:
1) What methodology could we use to study the actual Singularity?
2) Is there any methodology we can use to determine the cause of the Singularity progressing to the "Big Bang"?
3) What does religion hypothesize as being the Singularity? Please note, if you insert God here, you must justify His being the Singularity.
4) What does science have to show in the form of evidence that would negate the insertion of a creator setting off the Singularity to initiate the Big Bang leading to the future universe we now reside it. What does religion have in the form of evidence that a creator was needed to bring the Singularity into existence and is there any evidence that said creator actually initiated the Big Bang?

(Please note, a heavily relied on source for information from this thread came from:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/dictio ... heory1.htm )

[McCulloch]

I started with the word 'nothing', and proved that nothing does not exist, neither in this physical realm, nor in the Spiritual one, as long as we can see, hear, or sense using our senses. But we can think, or imagine 'nothing' and use it as a concept (as you said) every day.

As Bertrand Russell and many others have pointed out, one must be very careful about what one means when using the word nothing. However, I do agree with you about the physical realm and I will not argue against you about the spiritual realm, since I know nothing about that realm.

What I'm saying is that even though the concept exists, the actual nothing does not.

Or perhaps the concept of nothing existing is itself meaningless.

Now I studied a little more, and realized why atheist-science tries to avoid going beyond, or 'before' the big bang, to a point they even redefined the big-bang theory with a quiet poof... like the sound that blowing up a balloon makes, even to the point that they claim the galaxies are spread out flat like dots on the outside of an expanding balloon.

It avoids going beyond or before the big bang, because nothing, even in principle, can be known about such a time, if even there were such a time.

Now what's inside the balloon, or what is outside it, we are not to ask.

We can certainly ask. Many do. Speculations and hypotheses abound. We can ask all we want. But to answer, that is another thing entirely.

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up
NKJV

So if we did not have a big-bang in in the theory, we'll have a big one when it ends

According to whoever wrote 2 Peter.

Yesterday, I gave you nothing. Where did you put it? Do you see what I'm saying? It is meaningless to ask where the nothing went.

No it's NOT meaningless, but you just don't understand. If you would have given me the 'nothing' yesterday, I would have put it in the bottom of my glass, and the water. It is just hanging there upside down with only a piece of thin-hard plastic, defying gravity, waiting for your 'nothing'. So please, give me the 'nothing' I have been waiting for to appear.

Alright, I will. Check your PM. I have sent you nothing, four times today. I have also sent you nothing via email, text message, voice mail and twitter. I have even sent you nothing with UPS and telepathy. And I am fairly confident that you have received nothing from me through all of those channels. So, now I ask you, "Where did you put it?" I'll bet that you didn't put nothing anywhere.

Now all we need to do is agree 'what' this universe resides in, .. or more accurately put, 'WHOM' the universe resides in?

The universe does not reside in anything. The universe is everything.

I was so happy this morning, as i was studying the Big bang theory in Wikipedia, a YouTube video appeared on the bottom of my screen (I forgot now what it was called, I'll try to find it again) and it showed the earth, ground level first, then it zoomed out into space, past our solar system, past our galaxy, past all the galaxies, ..... and, ... and, ... I was waiting, ... waiting, ... and to my great disappointment, it stopped, and started zooming IN again to earths ground level.

Your great disappointment! Did you want the producer of this video to go beyond what is or can be known?

Funny, there is a 'picture of the universe' created by an artist, kind of egg-shaped, .. with 'blank paper' still left 'blank' around this egg-shaped universe.

Now I, the Christian-Odon ask you; "what is the blank around the egg-shaped universe?"

The answer: "Blank PAPER"

Wrong answer. The correct answer is: "I don't know."

So we cannot even draw the universe that you say is so big and so old, without that something outside it describing how it actually is believed it looks; in this case, egg-shaped.

Now I will not even go into how the size of the universe was established, .. it is too ridiculous to even debate. But to say it has an oval shape when the universe is as you said; "all there is", is .. well, ... I'll just say: "Childish".

I will agree. I do not claim that the universe is oval. According to some models, the universe is finite but unbounded. Unbounded means that there is no boundary, thus no shape.

[TheJackelantern]

Just so everyone knows, the Universe is measured to be flat. It's a type of open system to which means we do not live in a closed system. And even if we did, closed systems can only exist in an overall open system. It doesn't matter how many rooms are in the hotel, the hotel is infinite because there is no outside to the hotel. So what we do know is that the Universe is expanding, and expanding in what it originated from. Our universe is made from what it has originated from. And there are two definitions of Universe. One is in regards to the observable universe to which involves the Big Bang.. The other deals with the sum total of everything.. This universe is also synonymous with the terms reality, and existence.

This is a pretty good video to watch:

[youtube][/youtube]

As well as this video:

[youtube][/youtube]

Understanding the Basic Model:

[youtube][/youtube]

And many people need to understand the following before making an argument:

1. Why There Is Infinite Ground State Energy
2. Scale Of The Universe: Flash Presentation
3. Orders Of Magnitude On The Energy Scale
4. Zero-point Energy
5. Ground state energy
6. Vacuum energy
7. Zero energy calculation

The Observable Universe, from what we understand that came from the Big Bang, Has a total net energy of zero.. kenetic energy of motion being positive, and gravity being negative. Not literally zero energy (see zero point energy). So Quantum fluctuations produce particles and anti-particles could also have caused the birth of our Universe via inflation.. And as someone else stated:

Throughout the universe, particles and antiparticles spontaneously form and quickly annihilate each other without violating the law of energy conservation. These spontaneous births and deaths of so-called "virtual particle" pairs are known as "quantum fluctuations." Indeed, laboratory experiments have proven that quantum fluctuations occur everywhere, all the time. Virtual particle pairs (such as electrons and positrons) directly affect the energy levels of atoms, and the predicted energy levels disagree with the experimentally measured levels unless quantum fluctuations are taken into account.

Perhaps many quantum fluctuations occurred before the birth of our universe. Most of them quickly disappeared. But one lived sufficiently long and had the right conditions for inflation to have been initiated. Thereafter, the original tiny volume inflated by an enormous factor, and our macroscopic universe was born.

And this means our Universe could have come from a tiny volume of energy to which triggered inflation of positive energy. And what our Universe is expanding into what exactly what it came from. And this also means that such inflation events (big Bangs) in relation to the infinite vastness of existence itself

"could be as common as lightning out to see"

And our Universe could be just one of many out there..

[Seljuk]

I think you may be a bit confused yourself. It was the cause of the universe. Without it there would be no spacetime, and no universe.
The common misconception is that it is a case of "something from nothing". Indeed "stuff" (energy and its components) made up the singularity, and this singularity made the universe when it developed into a big bang.
The Big Bang made the universe, and is the reason for its expansion. Given our definition of a universe I would say that the Big Bang indeed made our universe.

Hope that clarifies everything.

[The Tongue]

We see the light of Galaxies and galactic clusters that has been travelling through space for untold billions of years, but are those heavenly bodies from which that observable light originated still in existence in our TIME?

Just how Big is the observable seemingly boundless Cosmos? Is all that we see, merely previous worlds that exist in a different space-time to ours?

This particular universe we are told, began as liquid like electromagnetic energy that was spewed out in the trillions of degrees when the singularity was spatially separated by what is called "The Big Bang."

The energy has cooled down to become matter, and one day the universal elements will become so excited that this Galactic cluster that you see, will descend once again into the Great abyss, or Black Hole from which it originated, and will be torn apart, molecule by molecule, atom by atom, sub-atomic particle by sub-atomic particle, until all that remains is the electromagnetic energy, the quantum of which, this universe was created.

My body was created by forces within the womb of my mother, who took the universal elements that she ate, such as grain, fruit, meat, eggs, dairy products, etc, which were created by the same creative force, from the universal elements.

And I bow the knee to none other than "Who I Am," who was in the beginning and has become who I am, to whom I am true. For "Who I Am," is connected to the very beginning by an unbroken genetic thread of life, "Who I Am," has never died and will never die. All that "Who I Am," is has always existed in some form or another: I picked up a fossil and O what a buzz---to think---in my hand was who I once was.

This body that "Who I Am" has become, is filled with all the spirit=information that has been gathered from all my ancestors human and pre-human, and "Who I Am," will continue to live and grow, gathering the spirit=information from all that he becomes in the future, he cannot die, but "I" can.

"I" am the mind/spirit that is born in this body from all the experiences and information that is taken in through the senses of this body that "Who I Am" has become. If this body were born without the senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch etc, then "I" who am developing as the controlling godhead to this body, could never have come into existence.

But if "I" refuse to be an obedient servant to, and and extension of "Who I Am," then "I," the information that is gathered from the senses of this particular body that "Who I Am" has become, will be wiped clean from the evolving or growing universal soul, which is the divine animating principle which activates all life and which momentum pervades the entire universal body. The eternal vibrating waves of the quantum of the electromagnetic energy, which has neither mass or electric charge, but carries angular and linear momentum.

I who am an obedient servant to "Who I Am," as an extension of "Who I Am," will continue to live in "Who I Am" as He develops within the universal body as the Supreme personalty of Godhead to the entire creation.

[SilenceInMotion]

Stephen Hawking posits that the universe is literally made from nothing. In biblical theology, this is popularly called 'creatio ex nihilo'.
In his theory, there is but two froms in reality- positive and negative energy. The positive energy is matter/energy, and the negative energy is space itself. In the beginning, you could think of a zero, and this value is pulled from equally opposite directions to maintain it, like how two opposite magnets react to each other- or gravity and Newton's basal law of equal and opposite reaction, or nuclear physic's distinction of nuclear energy in relevance to gravity (E=mc sq).

The universe is precisely made from nothing, and so it is nothing. Scripture reveals this in a 1001 ways. Yes, desert nomads were guided by God in what scientists know today. Problems?


*And the Big Bang theory was produced by a Catholic priest, just for the record. No physicist obviously had the brain child which Scripture reveals*

[The Tongue]

Stephen Hawking posits that the universe is literally made from nothing. In biblical theology, this is popularly called 'creatio ex nihilo'.
In his theory, there is but two froms in reality- positive and negative energy. The positive energy is matter/energy, and the negative energy is space itself. In the beginning, you could think of a zero, and this value is pulled from equally opposite directions to maintain it, like how two opposite magnets react to each other- or gravity and Newton's basal law of equal and opposite reaction, or nuclear physic's distinction of nuclear energy in relevance to gravity (E=mc sq).

The universe is precisely made from nothing, and so it is nothing. Scripture reveals this in a 1001 ways. Yes, desert nomads were guided by God in what scientists know today. Problems?


*And the Big Bang theory was produced by a Catholic priest, just for the record. No physicist obviously had the brain child which Scripture reveals*

[silenceInMotion wrote].....The universe is precisely made from nothing, and so it is nothing.

The universe is not made from nothing. This universe of matter (Frozen energy) of which the average temperature today is about 2.73C above Absolute Zero, is directly proportional to the liquid like electromagnetic energy that was spewed out in the trillions of degrees at the moment that the singularity of origin was spatially separated.

The quantum of the electromagnetic energy, from which the subatomic particles began to form shortly thereafter when the temperature had dropped to some billions of degrees, may have zero mass and no electric charge and yet carry angular and linear momentum, but those vibrating waves cannot be clasified as nothing.

[SilenceInMotion wrote]......And the Big Bang theory was produced by a Catholic priest,

The Big Bang theory came after Georges Henri Edouard Lemaitre, but He was the first person to propose the theory of the expansion of the universe from what he called the primeval atom, which theory was later expanded upon and is today called the Big Bang theory.