The Godhead, Correctly Explained

[A Freeman]

Excerpt below from:

In The Beginning Was The Word

Before the beginning of time, before there was language – both of which God created – God exists. Please note well the correct use of the word “exists”, which is a present-tense verb because God has no beginning, nor any end.

Psalm 90:2 BEFORE the mountains were brought forth, or ever Thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou [art] God.

God is the self-existing ONE (Exod. 3:14; Deut. 6:4; Zech. 14:9; Mark 12:29), NOT a “trinity”. One actually means one; it does NOT mean 3=1 or 1=3 or anything other than one. There is only ONE Almighty God, Who is The Most High (Psalm 57:2; Luke 1:32-35; Sura 2:255), i.e. greater than ALL (John 10:29), including Christ (John 14:28).

Before God created anyone or anything, God exists. Before time began there would have been no need for the Word (communication) in any form, as there was no one else with which to communicate.

In the Beginning

John 1:1-2 KJV
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

The first creation of God was His Firstborn/Eldest Son Michael (Col. 1:15; Rev. 3:14), known here on Earth by His TITLE: Christ.

Colossians 1:12-15
1:12 GIVING THANKS UNTO THE FATHER, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE God, the FIRSTBORN of every CREATURE*:

*Note Well: By Definition -

IMAGE = LIKENESS. The Hebrew name “Micha-El” literally means “Who is LIKE God?”. Like Michael, we (the spiritual-Beings/Souls) were made in God’s IMAGE/LIKENESS, but we certainly are NOT God the Father, and neither is anyone else, including Christ (Matt. 23:9; Sura 33:40).

INVISIBLE = NOT VISIBLE. No one has ever seen God (John 1:18; John 5:37), but thousands upon thousands saw Jesus, the human son of the virgin Mary, into whom Prince Michael/Christ was incarnated.

FIRSTBORN = THE FIRST CREATED/THE FIRST TO BE BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE.

CREATURE = SOME LIVING THING THAT WAS CREATED.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the community of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness (Prince Michael/Christ - Rev. 1:5), THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD;

The moment that God created Michael, God became known as Father (Matt. 6:9), and Michael became His Son (yes, a true Father-Son relationship – 1 John 2:22). And it was in that moment when both time and language began.

After God created Michael, God showed Michael everything, creating everyone and everything else by and for Michael (Col. 1:16).

Hebrews 1:1-4
1:1 God, Who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the Prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [His] Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
1:3 Who being the brightness of [His] glory, and the express IMAGE of His person, and upholding all things by The Word of His power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of His Majesty on high;
1:4 Being MADE so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 5:19-20
5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do NOTHING of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that Himself doeth: and He will show him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

[onewithhim]

We're talking about the common phrase ego eimi---"I am."

That's right.

This is said many times by people all through the Bible.

No. It's said six times in the New Testament. Seven if you include eimi ego.

If you include the Septuagint, as you seem to be, then it's said a ton of times, but in the overwhelming majority of those cases, it's said by God calling Himself God. That's opposite to the case you'd like it to make.

You still didn't answer my question

I've answered it every time you thought it was important enough to ask.

---are the blind man and Paul claiming to be God (since they both said ego eimi) ?

For the blind man, probably not, but as I pointed out the other two times you asked and I answered, it's still in a theologically charged passage in John's Gospel, so John may actually have intended that connection.

Paul, though, never said ego eimi at all. The author of 1 Timothy did, but that wasn't Paul. The author likely wasn't claiming to be God in that passage, but that may also be why he inverted the word order.

So the blind man nor the writer of Timothy claimed to be God, though they said the same thing that Jesus said---"Ego eimi." So why should we believe that Jesus was claiming to be God?

[Difflugia]

So the blind man nor the writer of Timothy claimed to be God, though they said the same thing that Jesus said---"Ego eimi." So why should we believe that Jesus was claiming to be God?

Since the other five times that John has someone saying ego eimi, it's Jesus saying it and John is building up to a climax where Jesus claims to be God. In that case, why shouldn't we also think that the blind man was claiming to be God, at least in some allegorical sense? You know that John was fond of wordplay and allegory, right? Especially using Greek words that didn't translate cleanly to and from Hebrew?

The author of Timothy was explicitly avoiding the theological connection by inverting the word order.

[Capbook]

John 8:58 has been quoted many times. There has been a thorough discussion on that verse.

Yes, but I believe the thorough discussion from your side were almost based from paraphrase translations.
See below for your ready reference.

Jhn 8:58 יהושע said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Aḇraham came to be, I am.”e Footnote: eSee also Jhn 1:1, Jhn 6:62, Jhn 17:5, Heb 11:26

THAT is paraphrased, as is John 1:1. The other verses don't say anything about Jesus being "I Am" or I Will, as some translations have it. You are misleading people, and that need not be the case, because we have discussed "I Am" (John 8:58) thoroughly in the past. Jesus was not quoting from Exodus 3:14. He spoke good proper Greek, not the mangled mess that many translators have made. Jesus simply said: "Before Abraham came to be, I existed."

You may have thoroughly discussed the "I am" in John 8:58 but you may not have it compared to the word in Greek of "I am" in the Old Testament of Ex 3:14. The word "I am" have the same Strong No. G1510, in Greek "eimi." in the OT and NT Greek Septuagint.
This proves that Jesus was quoting the same Greek word "eimi" as "I am" in Ex 3:14.
And also proves Jesus divine nature as God.

Oh no. "I am" is the most common phrase in the Scriptures, used by many many people. There is no indication that Jesus was quoting Exodus 3:14. In just a verse or two after John 8:58, the man who was blind and then could see after Jesus healed him, responded to the people after they asked him if he was that man, and he said "I am." Is the blind man also quoting Exodus? Is he also God?

As the healed blind man when asked if he was that man and said "I am" was the Jews picked stones and tried to throw it at him?
Or do the Jews understand what we understand that Jesus was quoting Ex 3:14?
I may ask you, why the Jews tried to throw stones to Jesus? (John 10:31-33)

Jhn 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.
Jhn 8:59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Jhn 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
Jhn 10:31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
Jhn 10:32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"
Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

[onewithhim]

Yes, but I believe the thorough discussion from your side were almost based from paraphrase translations.
See below for your ready reference.

Jhn 8:58 יהושע said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Aḇraham came to be, I am.”e Footnote: eSee also Jhn 1:1, Jhn 6:62, Jhn 17:5, Heb 11:26

THAT is paraphrased, as is John 1:1. The other verses don't say anything about Jesus being "I Am" or I Will, as some translations have it. You are misleading people, and that need not be the case, because we have discussed "I Am" (John 8:58) thoroughly in the past. Jesus was not quoting from Exodus 3:14. He spoke good proper Greek, not the mangled mess that many translators have made. Jesus simply said: "Before Abraham came to be, I existed."

You may have thoroughly discussed the "I am" in John 8:58 but you may not have it compared to the word in Greek of "I am" in the Old Testament of Ex 3:14. The word "I am" have the same Strong No. G1510, in Greek "eimi." in the OT and NT Greek Septuagint.
This proves that Jesus was quoting the same Greek word "eimi" as "I am" in Ex 3:14.
And also proves Jesus divine nature as God.

Oh no. "I am" is the most common phrase in the Scriptures, used by many many people. There is no indication that Jesus was quoting Exodus 3:14. In just a verse or two after John 8:58, the man who was blind and then could see after Jesus healed him, responded to the people after they asked him if he was that man, and he said "I am." Is the blind man also quoting Exodus? Is he also God?

As the healed blind man when asked if he was that man and said "I am" was the Jews picked stones and tried to throw it at him?
Or do the Jews understand what we understand that Jesus was quoting Ex 3:14?
I may ask you, why the Jews tried to throw stones to Jesus? (John 10:31-33)

Jhn 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.
Jhn 8:59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Jhn 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
Jhn 10:31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
Jhn 10:32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"
Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

He was claiming to be the SON of God, and they considered this to be blasphemy, even as much as if he said he was God. And they didn't want anyone saying that he had been around since before Abraham, whom they identified closely with---their esteemed patriarch. They were looking for ANY way to get rid of him, and they tried very hard, even to the point of accusing him of blasphemy and stoning him.

[tygger2]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #44]

Capbook wrote:
You may have thoroughly discussed the "I am" in John 8:58 but you may not have it compared to the word in Greek of "I am" in the Old Testament of Ex 3:14. The word "I am" have the same Strong No. G1510, in Greek "eimi." in the OT and NT Greek Septuagint.
This proves that Jesus was quoting the same Greek word "eimi" as "I am" in Ex 3:14.
And also proves Jesus divine nature as God.
..............................................................................
Eimi in the NT is "I am" and often translated "I am he." But it is not used as a part of God's name in Exodus 3:14 in the Septuagint! It says there "...Thus shall ye say to the sons of Israel, THE BEING [Ho On] has sent me to you." Yes it's in all caps in the Septuagint, "THE BEING," not "I am."

There is no NT Septuagint.

As for the Hebrew text at Ex. 3:14, it's ehyeh.

All the other places where ehyeh is used in the the books of Moses are listed below. You will find they always mean "I will be" not "I am," particularly when it is Jehovah speaking about his relationship to his people (as also in Ex. 3:14)

See ehyeh in an OT Interlinear at Exodus 3:14:
Now look up the other scriptures which use ehyeh and see how they are translated:

Genesis 26:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you" NRSV)
Genesis 31:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you" NRSV)

Exodus 3:12 (Jehovah: I will be with you" NRSV)
Exodus 4:12 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth" NRSV)
Exodus 4:15 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth" NRSV)

Deuteronomy 32:23 (Moses: "I will be with you" NRSV)

[Difflugia]

Eimi in the NT is "I am" and often translated "I am he." But it is not used as a part of God's name in Exodus 3:14 in the Septuagint! It says there "...Thus shall ye say to the sons of Israel, THE BEING [Ho On] has sent me to you." Yes it's in all caps in the Septuagint, "THE BEING," not "I am."

The part that's being quoted is before your ellipsis. If it weren't, we wouldn't have to suffer the nonsense about the Hebrew ehyeh affecting what John's Jesus meant by the Greek ego eimi.

All the other places where ehyeh is used in the the books of Moses are listed below.

Since John's Jesus is quoting ἐγώ εἰμι, then it would be more appropriate to look at verses where ἐγώ εἰμι appears. In the spirit of the NWT, I'm going to replace κύριος with "Jehovah."

• 3:6—ἐγώ εἰμι the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob
• 3:14—ἐγώ εἰμι The One
• 4:10 (Moses says)—slow of tongue ἐγώ εἰμι
• 7:5—and all of the Egyptians will know that ἐγώ εἰμι Jehovah
• 8:22 (v. 18 LXX)—so that they will know that ἐγώ εἰμι Jehovah, the Lord of all the Earth
• 14:4—and all of the Egyptians will know that ἐγώ εἰμι Jehovah
• 14:18—and all of the Egyptians will know that ἐγώ εἰμι Jehovah
• 20:2 (note that this is the First Commandment!)—ἐγώ εἰμι Jehovah your God who brought you out of Egypt
• 29:46—and they will know that ἐγώ εἰμι Jehovah their God

That's all of the appearances in Exodus. The pattern is similar to what we see in John, in fact. There are eight total and only 4:10 isn't Jehovah self-identifying. I suppose one could argue that Jesus picked Exodus 4:10 and is quoting Moses, but that just seems like whistling past a Trinitarian graveyard.