Is There Really a Hell?

[Richard Aberdeen]

According to astrophysicist Neil DeGrasse Tyson, there is a certain type of black hole located within dark voids in the universe, where there is no light for many light years in every direction. This type of black hole, according to Tyson, contains an inner "sea of fire", left over from the stars it long ago consumed. According to NASA, the Encyclopedia Britannica and the late Stephen Hawking, among many other scientists, a black hole is a "bottomless pit" that theoretically digs forever.

The Bible says that hell is located in "outer darkness" Matthew 8:12 and is a "bottomless pit" Revelation 9:11, containing a "lake of fire" Revelation 20:14. Many people long questioned how something containing a lake of fire could be located in outer darkness and even more difficult to believe, be a bottomless pit, from which no one can escape. Now we know. Jesus says in Luke 16:26, that no human can pass from heaven to hades or from hades to heaven. Those who mock the Bible invariably, eventually end up eating crow. . .or worse.

Many question whether a loving God would cast someone forever into hell. Such folks rarely pause to consider what our sins cost God, in the sacrifice of his only begotten son. We hear reports of parents weeping at the bedside of their child who has cancer or has been in a horrific accident, crying "if only I could take my child's place!" We have no idea how God must have felt when his only son was nailed to a Roman cross and, we likely never will even begin to grasp what our sins cost God Almighty.

There is great reward for accepting forgiveness for our sins from Jesus. And there is a great penalty for refusing to do so.

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #34]

Life on earth is only in flesh and ends totally in physical death, while spiritual punishment is in spirit and never ends; it continues to exist in eternity to eternity.

That's your conjecture. The fires of Gehenna were the reference Jesus made-- it was the fires that burned seemingly without end, but anything thrown in those 'eternal' fires was utterly consumed.

Spirit cannot be consumed by that fire alone, but by the power of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The second death is likened to that final, and forever burning fire that utterly destroys all. Like the thorns and thistles and weeds gathered up at harvest and thrown into a burning barrel-- the thistles are consumed and the fire in the barrel burns on. That's the exact image Jesus points toward--

That's the consummation of material things, not the spiritual punishment, which is the forever gnashing of the teeth in the boiling water and never-ending fire in the planet of Hell, which is soon to come after the Judgment Day.

"At harvest time I will tell the reapers, “First collect the darnel and tie it in bundles to be burned, but then gather the wheat into my barn.” Matt 13


-and the reapers are angels.

Thus saith the Lord Jesus Christ:

The events of Judgment will be terrifying. Everything we see in the universe will be destroyed and melt like ice. All planets, including the world, will explode and collapse. Nothing will remain standing, and everything will be destroyed. All creatures that have died, whether human, animal, or any living thing, will be resurrected. Those who are alive when Judgment comes will witness the terrifying fate of all. After a few seconds of resurrection, everyone will die again, including those who were brought back to life from their graves. And everyone will die! Then, all will be judged. Those who are not saved will be cast into a sea of fire, while those who are saved will be in eternal paradise, enjoying peace with God.

[OneJack]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #32]

Revelation 21:8, "The fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone:" Now it's their soul and spirit that are in the lake of fire; their flesh lies in the dust of the ground. And when the books are opened on judgment day, and they are cast body, soul, and spirit into the lake of fire, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth," meaning there will be life with pain after death.

Meaning that they will be no more.

If someone dies in a fiery crash and 'burn to death' they don't burn forever, but they are forever dead.

Bad comparison; try again.
1 Thessalonians 5:23, "I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
All three, body, soul, and spirit, will be transformed to the image of the Son. Tell us how you explain this verse away.

Paul said he prayed to God that his Thessalonian brethren's whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ; he was not saying they would be transformed to the image of the Son. It simply means Paul was praying to God, in essence, that his Thessalonian brethren be found worthy to be with the Lord when the latter comes to judge the whole world.

[OneJack]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #32]

Revelation 21:8, "The fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone:" Now it's their soul and spirit that are in the lake of fire; their flesh lies in the dust of the ground. And when the books are opened on judgment day, and they are cast body, soul, and spirit into the lake of fire, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth," meaning there will be life with pain after death.

Meaning that they will be no more.

If someone dies in a fiery crash and 'burn to death' they don't burn forever, but they are forever dead.

You don't believe in the Resurrection of the dead, do you?

[tam]

Peace to you,

]

Peace to you,

There is no punishment if you are dead, makes no sense. Being dead, having no feelings, emotions, or memory, is not a penalty; it's nothing, and if I were a bad guy and did bad things and did not believe in God, death without life would be a great reward. Why? Because I have gotten away with my crimes while I was alive.

Isn't the death penalty a punishment?

Punishment for what, the death penalty for the flesh, or for the spirit?

What about all the murderers, crime bosses, and drug dealers around the world who have bought off the police and the judges, and never get caught? They don't believe in God, or God's justice, and physical death to them is an endgame. Do you think people like Hitler, Himmler, Pol Pot, Stalin, and others have paid for their crimes against humanity? Here's where you people get it wrong: you believe man is composed only of a body of flesh and has no soul or spirit.

I don't believe that man is composed only of a body of flesh. Where some others get it wrong is thinking that the spirit that we are cannot be destroyed. Thinking it/we automatically live forever, but that is not correct. It cannot be correct. There are conditions required in order for a person to live forever (eat from the Tree of Life/Christ.)

You had better take the story of the rich man and Lazarus as a warning from God: there is a hell, and it is eternal, and it's a place the Lord has prepared for those who defy him, his creation, and his creatures.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus is not about the judgment (at the end of the thousand years.) It cannot be about that since the 'rich man' asked for Abraham to send Lazarus to his family so they would repent. This means the man had family still living, with time still to be convinced (since Abraham also said they could listen to Moses and the prophets.)

Nothing like that happens at the end of the thousand years, at the resurrection of the dead, and the judgement.

Revelation 21:8, "The fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone:" Now it's their soul and spirit that are in the lake of fire; their flesh lies in the dust of the ground. And when the books are opened on judgment day, and they are cast body, soul, and spirit into the lake of fire, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth," meaning there will be life with pain after death.

Any weeping and gnashing of teeth occurs during the judgment and sentencing, just before being cast into the lake of fire. (gnashing of teeth often relates to jealousy) But after being cast into the lake of fire, there is nothing left of the person (flesh or spirit.)

Anyone cast into the lake of fire has received the second death.


Because the choice that we have - that God gives us - is life or death. Blessing or curse. Life is the blessing. Death is the curse.

I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, Deut 30:19

Peace again to you and to you all

[Capbook]

Punishment for what, the death penalty for the flesh, or for the spirit?

Since we're talking about the second death, then both (flesh and spirit).

The second death is not for the flesh but for the spirit; hence, the death penalty for the spirit, which will be the eternal punishment and gnashing of the teeth.

May we know who do you believe who these verses referred to OneJack?
The one who was in Eden, called the anointed cherub, who were blameless until unrighteousness was found in him.

The Ruler of Tyre.

Yes, Ezek 28:12-19, while initially addressing the King of Tyre, is interpreted as symbolic account of Satan’s fall, referencing his previous state as a blameless, anointed cherub was in Eden, the garden of God.
Ezek 28:13 – The phrase “in Eden” the garden of God, is a key indicator that the passage is not simply about a human ruler.
Ezek 28:14 – And the description of the subject as an “anointed cherub” further points to a heavenly being, not a king. As fallen angels has the power to transform themselves to what they are not, this point to Satan OneJack.
If not, was the King of Tyre recorded in the Bible or taught by your spirit as was in Eden? OneJack?

[OneJack]

Since we're talking about the second death, then both (flesh and spirit).

The second death is not for the flesh but for the spirit; hence, the death penalty for the spirit, which will be the eternal punishment and gnashing of the teeth.

May we know who do you believe who these verses referred to OneJack?
The one who was in Eden, called the anointed cherub, who were blameless until unrighteousness was found in him.

The Ruler of Tyre.

Yes, Ezek 28:12-19, while initially addressing the King of Tyre, is interpreted as symbolic account of Satan’s fall, referencing his previous state as a blameless, anointed cherub was in Eden, the garden of God.
Ezek 28:13 – The phrase “in Eden” the garden of God, is a key indicator that the passage is not simply about a human ruler.
Ezek 28:14 – And the description of the subject as an “anointed cherub” further points to a heavenly being, not a king. As fallen angels has the power to transform themselves to what they are not, this point to Satan OneJack.
If not, was the King of Tyre recorded in the Bible or taught by your spirit as was in Eden? OneJack?

It’s a metaphor or, as you’ve said, symbolic. Why add your personal opinion to the narrative of the symbolic description of the Lord to the ruler of Tyre?

[placebofactor]

The second death is not for the flesh but for the spirit; hence, the death penalty for the spirit, which will be the eternal punishment and gnashing of the teeth.

May we know who do you believe who these verses referred to OneJack?
The one who was in Eden, called the anointed cherub, who were blameless until unrighteousness was found in him.

The Ruler of Tyre.

Yes, Ezek 28:12-19, while initially addressing the King of Tyre, is interpreted as symbolic account of Satan’s fall, referencing his previous state as a blameless, anointed cherub was in Eden, the garden of God.
Ezek 28:13 – The phrase “in Eden” the garden of God, is a key indicator that the passage is not simply about a human ruler.
Ezek 28:14 – And the description of the subject as an “anointed cherub” further points to a heavenly being, not a king. As fallen angels has the power to transform themselves to what they are not, this point to Satan OneJack.
If not, was the King of Tyre recorded in the Bible or taught by your spirit as was in Eden? OneJack?

It’s a metaphor or, as you’ve said, symbolic. Why add your personal opinion to the narrative of the symbolic description of the Lord to the ruler of Tyre?

OneJack don't take the easy way out and say, "It's a metaphor." That's a back door excuse. If it's a metaphor, please tell us what "being in the garden of God represents in your metaphor, what being covered in every precious stone represents; what the "tabrets and pipes that were prepared for him represent; what the anointed cherub represents; what having been set on the Holy Mountain of God represents; what walking up and down in the midst of the stones of fire represents; what being perfect in his ways represents; -----------. Please explain to us what they mean, using the Bible of course

[OneJack]

May we know who do you believe who these verses referred to OneJack?
The one who was in Eden, called the anointed cherub, who were blameless until unrighteousness was found in him.

The Ruler of Tyre.

Yes, Ezek 28:12-19, while initially addressing the King of Tyre, is interpreted as symbolic account of Satan’s fall, referencing his previous state as a blameless, anointed cherub was in Eden, the garden of God.
Ezek 28:13 – The phrase “in Eden” the garden of God, is a key indicator that the passage is not simply about a human ruler.
Ezek 28:14 – And the description of the subject as an “anointed cherub” further points to a heavenly being, not a king. As fallen angels has the power to transform themselves to what they are not, this point to Satan OneJack.
If not, was the King of Tyre recorded in the Bible or taught by your spirit as was in Eden? OneJack?

It’s a metaphor or, as you’ve said, symbolic. Why add your personal opinion to the narrative of the symbolic description of the Lord to the ruler of Tyre?

OneJack don't take the easy way out and say, "It's a metaphor." That's a back door excuse. If it's a metaphor, please tell us what "being in the garden of God represents in your metaphor, what being covered in every precious stone represents; what the "tabrets and pipes that were prepared for him represent; what the anointed cherub represents; what having been set on the Holy Mountain of God represents; what walking up and down in the midst of the stones of fire represents; what being perfect in his ways represents; -----------. Please explain to us what they mean, using the Bible of course

Using the Bible alone, it is evident that the Lord God did not elaborate what He meant to say to the ruler of Tyre symbolically or metaphorically, why ask me for the meaning of it when I’m not the Lord God who described the ruler of Tyre in such manner?

[placebofactor]

The Ruler of Tyre.

Yes, Ezek 28:12-19, while initially addressing the King of Tyre, is interpreted as symbolic account of Satan’s fall, referencing his previous state as a blameless, anointed cherub was in Eden, the garden of God.
Ezek 28:13 – The phrase “in Eden” the garden of God, is a key indicator that the passage is not simply about a human ruler.
Ezek 28:14 – And the description of the subject as an “anointed cherub” further points to a heavenly being, not a king. As fallen angels has the power to transform themselves to what they are not, this point to Satan OneJack.
If not, was the King of Tyre recorded in the Bible or taught by your spirit as was in Eden? OneJack?

It’s a metaphor or, as you’ve said, symbolic. Why add your personal opinion to the narrative of the symbolic description of the Lord to the ruler of Tyre?

OneJack don't take the easy way out and say, "It's a metaphor." That's a back door excuse. If it's a metaphor, please tell us what "being in the garden of God represents in your metaphor, what being covered in every precious stone represents; what the "tabrets and pipes that were prepared for him represent; what the anointed cherub represents; what having been set on the Holy Mountain of God represents; what walking up and down in the midst of the stones of fire represents; what being perfect in his ways represents; -----------. Please explain to us what they mean, using the Bible of course

Using the Bible alone, it is evident that the Lord God did not elaborate what He meant to say to the ruler of Tyre symbolically or metaphorically, why ask me for the meaning of it when I’m not the Lord God who described the ruler of Tyre in such manner?

Sure, the Lord elaborated: He tells us the serpent was in the Garden of God in heaven, that he was covered in the riches of heaven, he was the anointed cherub, and stood before the throne of God, that he was perfect in his ways, until iniquity (pride) festered from him. Isaiah tells us about his pride; his beauty corrupted his wisdom.

Isaiah 14:13, He said to the Lord, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt MY throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, --- - I will be like the Most High."

[Mr E]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #49]

OneJack is being obstinate on this, flailing wildly to try to score a point in a match already lost in order to save a little face. Of course it was not, the King of Tyre who was in the garden of God (paradise/heaven). That's complete nonsense (and OneJack knows it).

A historical refresher--

King Ittobaal III (means 'with Baal) was the King of Tyre in the days of the prophet Ezekiel. (around 605 BCE). Around that time and the years following, the King of Babylon (King Nebuchadnezzar II) was attacking and taking over the Levant and he defeated the King of Judah, destroyed Solomon's temple and famously took Daniel and friends off to Babylon as captives.

The King of Tyre (Ittobaal III) arrogantly took pleasure in Judah's defeat, refusing to come to their aid when Nebuchadnezzar attacked. Ezekiel speaks against him for this arrogance.

In Ezekiel 28, Ezekiel is speaking directly to this physical King-- vs 1-10. Then in the following verses, Ezekiel speaks in a more cosmic sense, addressing no longer the human king, but the spirit of this (with Baal) King... pointing out that it's the same spirit that fell from heaven that is present in this King. He's obviously speaking past the King, and referencing the satanic spiritual power that motivates him to do the evil things he does.