American Christian Soul Union.

[jcrawford]

I have written the following flyer to hand out to students at public schools, and was wondering if anyone would like to post comments or enquiries.

AMERICAN CHRISTIAN SOUL UNION


Christians know more about their own souls, minds, thoughts, ideas, beliefs feelings and behavior than any secular educator, psychologist or psychiatrist working for the public schools does. Christian churches, the Bible and therapeutic textbooks based on it provide all of the mental health treatment facilities and resources necessary to satisfy the spiritual and mental health requirements of maintaining a sound Christian mind, body and soul.

Christian students and teachers in public schools must be informed of their legal right to obtain Christian and legal counseling before being psychologically quizzed, tested, interrogated or psychologically abused by any public school educators, psychologists or psychological counselors. Christian students and teachers have the right to remain silent in the face of any psychological investigation or examination of their person, on the grounds that anything they say may be psychologically, medically and legally used against them in a court of law.

Christians in public schools also have the right to obtain a second opinion regarding any psychological diagnosis or evaluation which is made of them by employees, agents or representatives of a public school, with or without permission, and to sue public schools for any violation of their civil rights as well as for any psychological and medical malpractice perpetrated by employees, agents and representatives of a public school system.

Besides being of obvious Christian concern, I see the unsupervised psychological labeling and drugging of millions of public school students as a political and cultural issue, as well a psychological threat to the successful education and careers of American school-children.

Question for discussion and debate is whether or not you think that Christians have any right to resist the secular practice of conducting unsupervised psychological investigations and examinations on the students or staff which may result in the psychological labeling and drugging of Christian teachers and students without their advised consent and with no recourse to legal or Christian representation in such serious matters regarding the mental health of their Christian minds and souls.

[Goat]

I would like to see the evidence where the "American School kids aen their parents are psycologiclal abused by the public school officals'.

http://www.steve-olson.com/how-the-publ ... hes-souls/

http://www.watchman.org/na/academ.htm

http://www.mind-trek.com/reports/misc/minddest.htm

http://www.wrightslaw.com/news/06/abuse.nys.regs.htm

http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/abuse.index.htm

I see. In anwer, you give me some links to religious fanatic cults, and paranoid idiots, and someone who frankly totally misreprents the law.

[jcrawford]

I see. In anwer, you give me some links to religious fanatic cults, and paranoid idiots, and someone who frankly totally misreprents the law.

Now you know what non-evolutionists are forced to endure when asking for some viable evidence of evolution.

[McCulloch]

Moderator Note

I see. In anwer, you give me some links to religious fanatic cults, and paranoid idiots, and someone who frankly totally misreprents the law.

Goat, you appear to be dismissing the sources given by jcrawford by simple name calling and labeling. This is not debate.

[palmera]

jcrawford,

Your sources do have some merit, but it seems like they mainly pertain not to the psychological abuse of children by school officials, but by other students. In general, the sources suggests that the very structure of public schooling is anathema to critical thought and social growth; however, this does not say anything about students undergoing psychological testing or that they are being improperly drugged by school officials.

A couple of the sources suggest that educators need to be better trained to understand that students with disabilities communicate in different ways than others, and that their bad behavior is often an attempt to communicate. While certainly a problem, it does not support your claims about the millions of students undergoing problematic psychological testing and drugging.

It seems that your concern stems from what you see as the potential mislabeling of christian students as mentally disturbed. Certainly, misdiagnoses happen, but what specific "labels" do you see as problematic? Further, which of these labels could be shown as problematic because the student is a Christian?

you wrote:

Besides being of obvious Christian concern, I see the unsupervised psychological labeling and drugging of millions of public school students as a political and cultural issue, as well a psychological threat to the successful education and careers of American school-children.

What do you mean by "unsupervised psychological labeling and drugging of millions of public school students?" What's the process you're referring to? Who is the lebeler? How should she/he be supervised?

Question for discussion and debate is whether or not you think that Christians have any right to resist the secular practice of conducting unsupervised psychological investigations and examinations on the students or staff which may result in the psychological labeling and drugging of Christian teachers and students without their advised consent and with no recourse to legal or Christian representation in such serious matters regarding the mental health of their Christian minds and souls.

This question is a little convoluted and hard to break down. What "practice" are you talking about? Are Christian students being sent to college counselors because they are Christian? Are they then sent to doctors by school officials to undergo psychological testing because they're christian? ARe they drugged because they are Christian? Or, is it that students who do not adapt/ conform, to the standards of public schooling and social life are subjected to tests/drugs which might be found unnecessary if it were known that they were Christian?

The flyer focuses on the adminstration of psychiatric drugs through recommendation and reference by public school officials and makes no reference to general IQ tests or attitudinal surveys at all.

Ok, this clears it up a bit. But, what public school officials reserve the right to drug children or recommend them? School psychiatrists do not force children to take drugs, and while they may recommend that they do, that decision is ultimately up the parents- not the doctors or the school psychiatrist.

To tell you the truth, your specific concerns do not seem to be the problem that you make them out to be. Further, they are not validated by the evidence you put forth. It seems like you've made up a solution to a situation that doesn't actually exist. Further, the solution doesn't seem to have merit. On what authority can a pastor deny the diagnosis of a child examined by a school psychologist and diagnosed with ADHD? What biblical therapy can be provided that will help more than medicine? Unless the Bible provides a comprehensive guide to better nutrition, which it doesn't, I can't think of any therapy that will help a child.

I guess I still don't really understand what you're talking about, because there are no specific examples to make your concerns concrete for me.

[Goat]

I see. In anwer, you give me some links to religious fanatic cults, and paranoid idiots, and someone who frankly totally misreprents the law.

Now you know what non-evolutionists are forced to endure when asking for some viable evidence of evolution.

Let's take a closer look at your sources.

The first one is concerned about alienation and abuse from fellow students.

The second one is an organisation that, among other things, labels Roman Catholism
as a 'cult' and has certain elements that would label it as a cult too.

The third one is a bunch of ranting , without any kind of evidence to back up it's asserstions.

The forth one is misrepresented by you. The regulations involved were actually an attempt to put an regulation in where there was a 'hole' in the restrictions. The person was objecting to the fact in his opinion that the regulations did not close that hole well enough, and it also dealt with private schools also. You are mischaracterising the information provided.

[jcrawford]

jcrawford,

Your sources do have some merit, but it seems like they mainly pertain not to the psychological abuse of children by school officials, but by other students. In general, the sources suggests that the very structure of public schooling is anathema to critical thought and social growth; however, this does not say anything about students undergoing psychological testing or that they are being improperly drugged by school officials.

Here are a few specifics on ritalin abuse by public schools.

http://www.ablechild.org/newsarchive/sc ... -11-02.htm

http://www.schoolreport.com/issues_temp ... sue_id=374

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2785

[Goat]

jcrawford,

Your sources do have some merit, but it seems like they mainly pertain not to the psychological abuse of children by school officials, but by other students. In general, the sources suggests that the very structure of public schooling is anathema to critical thought and social growth; however, this does not say anything about students undergoing psychological testing or that they are being improperly drugged by school officials.

Here are a few specifics on ritalin abuse by public schools.

http://www.ablechild.org/newsarchive/sc ... -11-02.htm

http://www.schoolreport.com/issues_temp ... sue_id=374

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2785

Public schools can not prescribe ritalin. I will point out that out of all those 3 publications, only one is claiming that the 'school' pushed that on the, and frankly, it is just accusasionts, and not backed up with any evidence. The other is talking about how school age children are over precscribed ritalin, but not that hte school forced on on them. The other is worried that President Bushes concern that schools should be more involved in mental health might lead to abuse, not that it does.

So, 1 unsubstantiated claim, and two misread articles that don't say what you claim it says.

So far, your track record is not very good.

And, what ARE your credintals to be a 'Christian' mental health professional?

[jcrawford]

And, what ARE your credintals to be a 'Christian' mental health professional?

I profess faith in the mental healing power and mind-altering soteriology of Jesus Christ.

[Goat]

And, what ARE your credintals to be a 'Christian' mental health professional?

I profess faith in the mental healing power and mind-altering soteriology of Jesus Christ.

Mind altering. OOOOOOO KAY.,

If you are offering these services as part of the medical profession., I would not be surprised if what you are doing is illegal.

[Cephus]

If you are offering these services as part of the medical profession., I would not be surprised if what you are doing is illegal.

And utterly without merit as well, I'd wager. They had a word for people like that back in the old days: charlatan.