Suppose their was no death

[rowen]

Would their be anything imperfect in the world?

[Goat]

It all depends if you want to define time philosphically , religiously or scientifically.

I choose the scientific matter.

Why didn't you say so....?

Does that mean those relationships do not exist if those relationships are not observed?? That is nonsense. Those relationships change... and thus time.

Do they 'change' or do they 'emerge'? Is time emergent?

"In string theory, we now have overwhelming evidence that space is an emergent phenomenon. ... we should not think about the objects and events to take place on a well-defined background geometry; we should not think about space and time as basic assumptions whose existence is guaranteed before we consider anything else. ...Special relativity guarantees that if space is emergent, time must be emergent as well."

When we have a way to test string theory that can be tested.

We do know there is a relationship between the change in distance between two objects, and their relative time flows.

And we call it time.

Yes, we do. That does not mean those relationships do not exist without our concept. We have words for a lot of things.. like, width, and depth, and 'i'.

[bernee51]

It all depends if you want to define time philosphically , religiously or scientifically.

I choose the scientific matter.

Why didn't you say so....?

Does that mean those relationships do not exist if those relationships are not observed?? That is nonsense. Those relationships change... and thus time.

Do they 'change' or do they 'emerge'? Is time emergent?

"In string theory, we now have overwhelming evidence that space is an emergent phenomenon. ... we should not think about the objects and events to take place on a well-defined background geometry; we should not think about space and time as basic assumptions whose existence is guaranteed before we consider anything else. ...Special relativity guarantees that if space is emergent, time must be emergent as well."

When we have a way to test string theory that can be tested.

We do know there is a relationship between the change in distance between two objects, and their relative time flows.

And we call it time.

Yes, we do. That does not mean those relationships do not exist without our concept. We have words for a lot of things.. like, width, and depth, and 'i'.

To sum up...

The distance between an idea (thought, memory) and action is what we call time.

The measure of change in relationships we call time.

[Goat]

To sum up...

The distance between an idea (thought, memory) and action is what we call time.

The measure of change in relationships we call time.

Yes, we have words for things. Now, the french, on the other hand, have a different word for practically everything.

Just because we have a word for something doesn't mean it only exists in our mind.

We have a word for water. If we didn't exist, would water go away?

[bernee51]

To sum up...

The distance between an idea (thought, memory) and action is what we call time.

The measure of change in relationships we call time.

Yes, we have words for things. Now, the french, on the other hand, have a different word for practically everything.

Merde, you mean one man's meat is another's poisson.

Just because we have a word for something doesn't mean it only exists in our mind.

We have a word for water. If we didn't exist, would water go away?

Some aspects might. Water means much more to me recalling the night in the spa with the hot twins.

[Goat]

Merde, you mean one man's meat is another's poisson.

I don't know... there seems to be something fishy about that statement.

Just because we have a word for something doesn't mean it only exists in our mind.

We have a word for water. If we didn't exist, would water go away?

Some aspects might. Water means much more to me recalling the night in the spa with the hot twins.[/quote]

That isn't to say there might (or might not) be emotional interactions and subjective experiences that you might have. The water, however, does not care.

[bernee51]

Merde, you mean one man's meat is another's poisson.

I don't know... there seems to be something fishy about that statement.

Just because we have a word for something doesn't mean it only exists in our mind.

We have a word for water. If we didn't exist, would water go away?

Some aspects might. Water means much more to me recalling the night in the spa with the hot twins.

That isn't to say there might (or might not) be emotional interactions and subjective experiences that you might have. The water, however, does not care.[/quote]

Nor does the universe care about time, we however...

[Goat]

Merde, you mean one man's meat is another's poisson.

I don't know... there seems to be something fishy about that statement.

Just because we have a word for something doesn't mean it only exists in our mind.

We have a word for water. If we didn't exist, would water go away?

Some aspects might. Water means much more to me recalling the night in the spa with the hot twins.

That isn't to say there might (or might not) be emotional interactions and subjective experiences that you might have. The water, however, does not care.

Nor does the universe care about time, we however...[/quote]

The universe might care about time, but time is still a component of it. The is regardless if there is an observer of time or not.

[McCulloch]

How does a rock falling to earth show “time exists�?

The rock falls at a rate. Ignoring wind resistance and other complicating factors, if a rock is tossed up in Ottawa, one second after it reaches its apex, it will be traveling at 9.806 meter / second. This will happen whether or not there is someone there to observe. Of course the rock is unaware that it is falling. Nevertheless, both the one second interval and the specific rate of speed, are indicators that time has elapsed.

Time is an observed phenomenon, by means of which human beings sense and record changes in the environment and in the universe.

Time exists in the noosphere.

Time exists, as far as we can tell that anything exists in the universe. The observation of time exists in the noosphere.

I’ll hazard a guess and state that a rock, not having a presence in the noosphere, cannot know when it begins falling and when it stops. Time is only relevant to those who can observe and measure. It is also arbitrary and relative.

Is it your view that if something is not relevant to an observer that it does not exist?

“Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute….�

Stop chasing tail and get back to the debate.

[Rekon]

If we remember experiences with dead relatives does that mean that those people exist?

No, but the experience indeed existed. One can not claim that a past experience does not exist just for the mere fact that it no longer does in the 'now'. Something that exists can not all the sudden become imaginary, for imaginary concepts are not real. Experiences, however, are real and memories are what we are left with as proof of what occured.

[Rekon]

Most 'action' is indeed a reaction to past influences. What we call 'action' is in fact 'reaction'. Buttons get pushed results occur. That does not make the past any more real.

Then if the past was not real, then why do you use it to explain an action. You say that action is a reaction to PAST influences... all that is left is the FUTURE resultant of the action.

Believed to exist. Action as if they ar real does not make them so. Just as action (and belief) as if god were real does not make him so. This does not mean it is not 'real' for the believer.

Do you say that god exists to the believer then? Beliefs are mental constructs; which according to you are not real. An action is real for the simple fact that it occurs 'now' and it is a happening. One can not assume that since an idea may be fradulent, that an action is unreal. Action and idea are two seperate realms.

Indeed it does...I refer you to the 'time ship' which we create for ourselves.

We do not create time for ourselves. I do not choose whether or not I want a past, a future, or a now. We are born under the influence of time. It is not a question of personal decision. At least I have not met anybody that chooses not to have a past or chooses to have just a future.