Christians Favor Abortion

[Zzyzx]

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Many Christians here and elsewhere claim to be very opposed to abortion. BUT when confronted with an unwanted pregnancy Christian women (including Evangelicals) have the very abortion they claim to oppose – a half a million times per year.

A 1994/95 survey (2,3) of nearly 10,000 abortion patients showed 18% of women having abortions are born-again or Evangelical Christians. Many of these women are likely anti-choice. The survey also showed that Catholic women have an abortion rate 29% higher than Protestant women. A Planned Parenthood handbook on abortion notes that nearly half of all abortions are for women who describe themselves as born-again Christian, Evangelical Christian, or Catholic.

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

The article has several ironic citations about "Pro-Life" women who have abortions including this one:

"I've had several cases over the years in which the anti-abortion patient had rationalized in one way or another that her case was the only exception, but the one that really made an impression was the college senior who was the president of her campus Right-to-Life organization, meaning that she had worked very hard in that organization for several years. As I was completing her procedure, I asked what she planned to do about her high office in the RTL organization. Her response was a wide-eyed, 'You're not going to tell them, are you!?' When assured that I was not, she breathed a sigh of relief, explaining how important that position was to her and how she wouldn't want this to interfere with it." (Physician, Texas)

Another article

A new study by The Center For Reason (www.CenterForReason.com) finds that Christians have just as many abortions as their non-Christian counterparts. The study concludes that in the year 2000, Christians were responsible for 570,000 abortions. Catholics were found to be the worst offenders, with abortion rates higher than the national average.
http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/articles/ ... rtion.html

Question for debate:

If Christian women have more than half a million abortions per year how can the Christian anti-abortion stance NOT be hypocritical?

[Goat]

Why shouldn't a fetus be treated as a newborn? It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why shouldn't a toddler be treated like an adult. It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

[Cathar1950]

Why shouldn't a fetus be treated as a newborn? It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why shouldn't a toddler be treated like an adult. It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why not treat an adult like a child they were one once?
Good point Goat. Of course why not treat a wet dream like a newborn as it will be a child given the chance. Of course this makes for the death of possible millions.
I think they need to start with the living before the start protecting the possible where it might make it more desirable to bring a child into the world.

[Raptor_Jesus]

Why shouldn't a fetus be treated as a newborn? It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why shouldn't a toddler be treated like an adult. It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why not treat an adult like a child they were one once?
Good point Goat. Of course why not treat a wet dream like a newborn as it will be a child given the chance. Of course this makes for the death of possible millions.
I think they need to start with the living before the start protecting the possible where it might make it more desirable to bring a child into the world.

Good point to both of you. But Cathar I don't understand where your coming from wetdream to newborn. They're almost two entirely different things..
And not everything is based on desire entirely, they're are couples out there that actually plan out having a kid. Then again theres kids my age who just think its the cool thing to do and don't understand all the responsibilities that come with a kid.

[Cathar1950]

Why shouldn't a fetus be treated as a newborn? It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why shouldn't a toddler be treated like an adult. It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why not treat an adult like a child they were one once?
Good point Goat. Of course why not treat a wet dream like a newborn as it will be a child given the chance. Of course this makes for the death of possible millions.
I think they need to start with the living before the start protecting the possible where it might make it more desirable to bring a child into the world.

Good point to both of you. But Cathar I don't understand where your coming from wetdream to newborn. They're almost two entirely different things..
And not everything is based on desire entirely, they're are couples out there that actually plan out having a kid. Then again theres kids my age who just think its the cool thing to do and don't understand all the responsibilities that come with a kid.

I was thinking of the notion that spilling your seed was also killing a potential child as it was once thought the woman was just a vessel and didn't contribute.
The drive to procreate is strong even when it is meditated through cultures.
I recall, and this is just a personal story, my ex-wife had a miscarriage and while we felt loss it was not the same as losing a child.
I might personally find abortion distasteful I find the starving of children or children dying from poverty even more distasteful. Until we as a people can guarantee the love and care for all children after their born we should leave the issue between doctors and women.
I almost equate it with child sacrifice and believers have not drifted that far from the idea as they have been perfectly willing to sacrifice themselves and others using the image of a bloody sacrifice of Jesus demanded by God as something everyone has coming as an example.
But sex eduction and economics are better approaches to the issue then emotional appeals or moral posturing.

[Raptor_Jesus]

Why shouldn't a fetus be treated as a newborn? It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why shouldn't a toddler be treated like an adult. It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why not treat an adult like a child they were one once?
Good point Goat. Of course why not treat a wet dream like a newborn as it will be a child given the chance. Of course this makes for the death of possible millions.
I think they need to start with the living before the start protecting the possible where it might make it more desirable to bring a child into the world.

Good point to both of you. But Cathar I don't understand where your coming from wetdream to newborn. They're almost two entirely different things..
And not everything is based on desire entirely, they're are couples out there that actually plan out having a kid. Then again theres kids my age who just think its the cool thing to do and don't understand all the responsibilities that come with a kid.

I was thinking of the notion that spilling your seed was also killing a potential child as it was once thought the woman was just a vessel and didn't contribute.
The drive to procreate is strong even when it is meditated through cultures.
I recall, and this is just a personal story, my ex-wife had a miscarriage and while we felt loss it was not the same as losing a child.
I might personally find abortion distasteful I find the starving of children or children dying from poverty even more distasteful. Until we as a people can guarantee the love and care for all children after their born we should leave the issue between doctors and women.
I almost equate it with child sacrifice and believers have not drifted that far from the idea as they have been perfectly willing to sacrifice themselves and others using the image of a bloody sacrifice of Jesus demanded by God as something everyone has coming as an example.
But sex eduction and economics are better approaches to the issue then emotional appeals or moral posturing.

So your also saying masterbation is wrong/bad? And that its the same as killing a newborn?

[Cathar1950]

Why shouldn't a fetus be treated as a newborn? It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why shouldn't a toddler be treated like an adult. It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why not treat an adult like a child they were one once?
Good point Goat. Of course why not treat a wet dream like a newborn as it will be a child given the chance. Of course this makes for the death of possible millions.
I think they need to start with the living before the start protecting the possible where it might make it more desirable to bring a child into the world.

Good point to both of you. But Cathar I don't understand where your coming from wetdream to newborn. They're almost two entirely different things..
And not everything is based on desire entirely, they're are couples out there that actually plan out having a kid. Then again theres kids my age who just think its the cool thing to do and don't understand all the responsibilities that come with a kid.

I was thinking of the notion that spilling your seed was also killing a potential child as it was once thought the woman was just a vessel and didn't contribute.
The drive to procreate is strong even when it is meditated through cultures.
I recall, and this is just a personal story, my ex-wife had a miscarriage and while we felt loss it was not the same as losing a child.
I might personally find abortion distasteful I find the starving of children or children dying from poverty even more distasteful. Until we as a people can guarantee the love and care for all children after their born we should leave the issue between doctors and women.
I almost equate it with child sacrifice and believers have not drifted that far from the idea as they have been perfectly willing to sacrifice themselves and others using the image of a bloody sacrifice of Jesus demanded by God as something everyone has coming as an example.
But sex eduction and economics are better approaches to the issue then emotional appeals or moral posturing.

So your also saying masterbation is wrong/bad? And that its the same as killing a newborn?

No, but some make the slippery slope argument.

[Raptor_Jesus]

Why shouldn't a fetus be treated as a newborn? It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why shouldn't a toddler be treated like an adult. It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why not treat an adult like a child they were one once?
Good point Goat. Of course why not treat a wet dream like a newborn as it will be a child given the chance. Of course this makes for the death of possible millions.
I think they need to start with the living before the start protecting the possible where it might make it more desirable to bring a child into the world.

Good point to both of you. But Cathar I don't understand where your coming from wetdream to newborn. They're almost two entirely different things..
And not everything is based on desire entirely, they're are couples out there that actually plan out having a kid. Then again theres kids my age who just think its the cool thing to do and don't understand all the responsibilities that come with a kid.

I was thinking of the notion that spilling your seed was also killing a potential child as it was once thought the woman was just a vessel and didn't contribute.
The drive to procreate is strong even when it is meditated through cultures.
I recall, and this is just a personal story, my ex-wife had a miscarriage and while we felt loss it was not the same as losing a child.
I might personally find abortion distasteful I find the starving of children or children dying from poverty even more distasteful. Until we as a people can guarantee the love and care for all children after their born we should leave the issue between doctors and women.
I almost equate it with child sacrifice and believers have not drifted that far from the idea as they have been perfectly willing to sacrifice themselves and others using the image of a bloody sacrifice of Jesus demanded by God as something everyone has coming as an example.
But sex eduction and economics are better approaches to the issue then emotional appeals or moral posturing.

So your also saying masterbation is wrong/bad? And that its the same as killing a newborn?

No, but some make the slippery slope argument.

Do you find it to be wrong like having sex for pleasure?

Like ejaculation outside of a womans vag is wrong?

[Cathar1950]

Why shouldn't a fetus be treated as a newborn? It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why shouldn't a toddler be treated like an adult. It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why not treat an adult like a child they were one once?
Good point Goat. Of course why not treat a wet dream like a newborn as it will be a child given the chance. Of course this makes for the death of possible millions.
I think they need to start with the living before the start protecting the possible where it might make it more desirable to bring a child into the world.

Good point to both of you. But Cathar I don't understand where your coming from wetdream to newborn. They're almost two entirely different things..
And not everything is based on desire entirely, they're are couples out there that actually plan out having a kid. Then again theres kids my age who just think its the cool thing to do and don't understand all the responsibilities that come with a kid.

I was thinking of the notion that spilling your seed was also killing a potential child as it was once thought the woman was just a vessel and didn't contribute.
The drive to procreate is strong even when it is meditated through cultures.
I recall, and this is just a personal story, my ex-wife had a miscarriage and while we felt loss it was not the same as losing a child.
I might personally find abortion distasteful I find the starving of children or children dying from poverty even more distasteful. Until we as a people can guarantee the love and care for all children after their born we should leave the issue between doctors and women.
I almost equate it with child sacrifice and believers have not drifted that far from the idea as they have been perfectly willing to sacrifice themselves and others using the image of a bloody sacrifice of Jesus demanded by God as something everyone has coming as an example.
But sex eduction and economics are better approaches to the issue then emotional appeals or moral posturing.

So your also saying masterbation is wrong/bad? And that its the same as killing a newborn?

No, but some make the slippery slope argument.

Do you find it to be wrong like having sex for pleasure?

Like ejaculation outside of a womans vag is wrong?

Of course not!
I don't think what women do is wrong either and natural as we mature sexually though out life. Nature has design sex to be a pleasurable act both personally and in bonding. Its also what we make of it. I also think sexuality is bound with personality development and become part of who you are as a human and socially.
I was reading where we develop our "sexual maps" by the time we are five or six long before a more nature induces drive where who and what turns us on was learned as pattern and model. It is all rather complex and a fascinating field or fields of study as well as a pleasant pastime and other dimensions that ever evolve. Good stuff all around.

[Raptor_Jesus]

Why shouldn't a fetus be treated as a newborn? It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why shouldn't a toddler be treated like an adult. It WILL be someday, wouldn't it?

Why not treat an adult like a child they were one once?
Good point Goat. Of course why not treat a wet dream like a newborn as it will be a child given the chance. Of course this makes for the death of possible millions.
I think they need to start with the living before the start protecting the possible where it might make it more desirable to bring a child into the world.

Good point to both of you. But Cathar I don't understand where your coming from wetdream to newborn. They're almost two entirely different things..
And not everything is based on desire entirely, they're are couples out there that actually plan out having a kid. Then again theres kids my age who just think its the cool thing to do and don't understand all the responsibilities that come with a kid.

I was thinking of the notion that spilling your seed was also killing a potential child as it was once thought the woman was just a vessel and didn't contribute.
The drive to procreate is strong even when it is meditated through cultures.
I recall, and this is just a personal story, my ex-wife had a miscarriage and while we felt loss it was not the same as losing a child.
I might personally find abortion distasteful I find the starving of children or children dying from poverty even more distasteful. Until we as a people can guarantee the love and care for all children after their born we should leave the issue between doctors and women.
I almost equate it with child sacrifice and believers have not drifted that far from the idea as they have been perfectly willing to sacrifice themselves and others using the image of a bloody sacrifice of Jesus demanded by God as something everyone has coming as an example.
But sex eduction and economics are better approaches to the issue then emotional appeals or moral posturing.

So your also saying masterbation is wrong/bad? And that its the same as killing a newborn?

No, but some make the slippery slope argument.

Do you find it to be wrong like having sex for pleasure?

Like ejaculation outside of a womans vag is wrong?

Of course not! :blink:
I don't think what women do is wrong either and natural as we mature sexually though out life. Nature has design sex to be a pleasurable act both personally and in bonding. Its also what we make of it. I also think sexuality is bound with personality development and become part of who you are as a human and socially.
I was reading where we develop our "sexual maps" by the time we are five or six long before a more nature induces drive where who and what turns us on was learned as pattern and model. It is all rather complex and a fascinating field or fields of study as well as a pleasant pastime and other dimensions that ever evolve. Good stuff all around.
O:)

Very good point :D
This is irrelevant,
but do you believe that modern media has more of an influence on sex and all that stuff?

[Cathar1950]

Very good point
This is irrelevant,
but do you believe that modern media has more of an influence on sex and all that stuff?

Or does sex have an influence on media? Its probably both.
But what do you mean by "more of an influence", more then what?

I have read that porno or the sex industry has been a leader in new computer technology going to the common person.
The media is the message.

There has been pornography and sexual images as long as we have history but maybe not as long as we have had sex. Sometimes they were like politics and religion where there were no separate areas of social and cultural life.

I think media will keep up with our sex lives and who knows what benefits it brings.
I find it interesting how our sexual maps are formed early in our development along with our sense of self and both influence our later sexual development even at its roots.