Are we living in the last days?

[otseng]

From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.

For debate:
Are we living in the last days?

[2timothy316]

It seems to me that the "last days" are more likely to be brought about by our own stubborn self-destructiveness than by the fulfillment of any prophecy.

Could it be that is the prophecy? That the Creator of all things KNEW about our own self-destructiveness and had that written down. That He KNEW what we'd as humans would bring to the earth. That He KNEW that He was going to have to step in and stop us from completely killing all life on this planet.

"But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth." - Rev 11:18

What's really ruining the earth? Isn't it capitalism that's ruining the earth by turning lands into deserts and oceans into garbage dumps? By poisoning the air and the water? And for what? Profit. How can Marxists be blamed for that?

I don't know of one style of human government that hasn't done great harm to the Earth or to the people that live on it. Capitalism, monarchies, republics, socialism, etc all have one major problem. Corrupt humans end up in charge of them. They might have grand ideas but in the end, they go corrupt. All human led governments fail over time. There has never been a single government that has stood the since the beginning of human civilization.

Since you like quoting from the Christian Bible so much, I suggest that you go back and review Acts 4:34-35:

"Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need."

Apparently, early Christian society featured a robust economic safety net established through a universal mandate for the downward redistribution of wealth. Imagine that----the first Christians were socialists! So I guess you can expect that godly socialism to be re-established when earth-ruining capitalism has been wiped away.

The new world government will not be ruled by men. (Dan 2:44) The government that will replace all the governments of the Earth will be a theocracy. It's ruler will be Jehovah God. No human placed in a position of power will be corrupt or be allowed to become corrupt. All such things will pass away and never return. (Rev 21:3,4)

Who's going to be overseeing this when it happens?

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/ar ... sianic-age

Jesus Christ and his angelic co-rulers will be responsible for the dismantling of the world's governments we see today and when they have completed that task, ruled for 1000 years, destroyed Satan and rid the world of death itself, they will give rulership back to their Father Jehovah. (1 Cor 15:24,25; Rev Chapter 20)

[2ndpillar2]

It seems to me that the "last days" are more likely to be brought about by our own stubborn self-destructiveness than by the fulfillment of any prophecy.

Could it be that is the prophecy? That the Creator of all things KNEW about our own self-destructiveness and had that written down. That He KNEW what we'd as humans would bring to the earth. That He KNEW that He was going to have to step in and stop us from completely killing all life on this planet.

"But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth." - Rev 11:18

What's really ruining the earth? Isn't it capitalism that's ruining the earth by turning lands into deserts and oceans into garbage dumps? By poisoning the air and the water? And for what? Profit. How can Marxists be blamed for that?

I don't know of one style of human government that hasn't done great harm to the Earth or to the people that live on it. Capitalism, monarchies, republics, socialism, etc all have one major problem. Corrupt humans end up in charge of them. They might have grand ideas but in the end, they go corrupt. All human led governments fail over time. There has never been a single government that has stood the since the beginning of human civilization.

Since you like quoting from the Christian Bible so much, I suggest that you go back and review Acts 4:34-35:

"Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need."

Apparently, early Christian society featured a robust economic safety net established through a universal mandate for the downward redistribution of wealth. Imagine that----the first Christians were socialists! So I guess you can expect that godly socialism to be re-established when earth-ruining capitalism has been wiped away.

The new world government will not be ruled by men. (Dan 2:44) The government that will replace all the governments of the Earth will be a theocracy. It's ruler will be Jehovah God. No human placed in a position of power will be corrupt or be allowed to become corrupt. All such things will pass away and never return. (Rev 21:3,4)

Who's going to be overseeing this when it happens?

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/ar ... sianic-age

The house of Israel would be given a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 36:27) after having been gathered out of the nations (Ezekiel 36:24), and Ephraim/Israel and Judah will be placed in the land given to Jacob, under the "My servant David", who will be king (Ezekiel 37:24). The nations/Gentiles will be ruled from Jerusalem under a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15). If the nations do not concur with the law of the feast of Booths, and bow to the king in Jerusalem, they will have their land turned into iron, by means of having no rain (Zechariah 14:19). A review of a no rain scenario can be seen in Europe and California by the drying up of lakes, and the run away forest fires. In communist eastern Europe, the problem was made worse by the communist draining their lakes and planting crops in the lake beds. The fertility of the lake beds was soon exhausted and the lake areas are turning into deserts. The reverse can be found in the state of Israel, whereas the deserts are being turned into orchards.

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #451]That's quite a scenario. Does Hal Lindsey have a new book out or something?

Seriously, though, I spent my youth during the latter years of the Cold War dreading the end of the world and what came of it? The Hal Lindseys were wrong. The founding of modern Israel in 1948 was supposed to usher in the last generation before Jesus returned. 1988, One Biblical generation later, came and went and no return of Jesus. The Soviet Union, which just had to be the great Gog of prophecy, fell apart. So then what? Maybe Christians had to convert the Jews for Jesus to come back, so they've been trying that----still no Jesus. Maybe electing Trump would set the stage for Jesus to come back. Trump was voted out----and still no Jesus.

It seems to me that the "last days" are more likely to be brought about by our own stubborn self-destructiveness than by the fulfillment of any prophecy.

And there are plenty of left wingers who aren't "Atheistic Marxist".

Any Liberals/left wingers who won't follow the new "Atheist Marxist" rule will be "cancelled" by the "new" left. Many old liberals are leaving the fold, and finding out how illiberal their fellow leftist/Progressives really are. Like the KKK was the military arm of the old Democratic party, the military arm of the "new" left was the Marxist BLM and the Fascist Antifa until they got out of control, and now their new military arm is the incompetent, non scientific, non governmental, CDC. We are now living in the environment of "1984" by George Orwell. Black is white and white is black. Many old Liberals have turned their support to the conservatives, hopefully, not too late. Judgment of the "last days" comes primarily upon the backs of the law breakers, not the law keepers. The left makes their "new" laws at the expense of the country, but will mainly fall upon their own backs. Their cancel culture is eating their own leaders. Because of the severity of the coming judgment, the wicked must be left free to show the affects of their wickedness/lawlessness, and then when they are truly ripe/rotten, judgment, gathering of the crop (Matthew 13:30), will come.

[TRANSPONDER]

We are not getting much of a debate here. It is just preaching, not to say conspiracy theories and (of course) projection of the faults of the religious right onto the Other Side.

I need hardly say that the rational and reasonable should realize that this is little more than the religious right providing their own infield chatter, but just to let them know that the only ones in theor own echo -cahamber is themselves, so they might save their efforts for some kind of valid debate, not this evangelical Spam.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #462]

The house of Israel would be given a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 36:27) after having been gathered out of the nations (Ezekiel 36:24), and Ephraim/Israel and Judah will be placed in the land given to Jacob, under the "My servant David", who will be king (Ezekiel 37:24). The nations/Gentiles will be ruled from Jerusalem under a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15).

But who's going to oversee it? It wouldn't be Jesus, who was supposedly sacrificed for the sins of the world, because sacrifices for sin are still being made (Ezekiel 45).

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #462]

The house of Israel would be given a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 36:27) after having been gathered out of the nations (Ezekiel 36:24), and Ephraim/Israel and Judah will be placed in the land given to Jacob, under the "My servant David", who will be king (Ezekiel 37:24). The nations/Gentiles will be ruled from Jerusalem under a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15).

But who's going to oversee it? It wouldn't be Jesus, who was supposedly sacrificed for the sins of the world, because sacrifices for sin are still being made (Ezekiel 45).

Ezekiel 37:24 made it clear that "My servant David will be king". Ezekiel 34:23 declares that "I will set over them one shepherd, My servant David".... and My servant David will be prince among them".... "and they (Israel) will dwell securely. Or as stated in Hosea 3:5, "Israel will return and seek the Lord their God, and David their king...in the last days". We are simply in the lead up to the last days, and Judah, the Jews, are living in the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37:25), waiting for Ephraim/Israel to be gathered out of the nations (Ezekiel 36:24). As for "sins", "everyone will die for his own iniquity (sins)" (Jeremiah 31:30). No one who has sinned will escape death, no matter what they believe or profess. If Yeshua prayed, "let this cup pass from me", how is it that the cup didn't pass from him? (Matthew 26:39). Did he not have the faith required to have his prayer met? Did Abraham sacrifice his son Isaac, or was the simple fact that he was willing to do so enough to find God's favor? If your sins had been forgiven, then you could cancel your next doctor's appointment. As it is, you best go to your doctor and maybe prolong your life another 24 hours, whether in pain or not. What you believe and what is reality are two different things. Elijah could heal the sick and raise the dead, and so could Yeshua prior to his so called death. Yeshua's message was the kingdom, which is built on justice and righteousness (doing the right thing). Justice is defined in Revelation 20:12, whereas the dead are raised and judged according to their deeds, whether good or bad. The only benevolence given was to Israel, because of their "holy name" (Ezekiel 36:21), to set up the kingdom (Ezekiel 36:29), whereas they were "saved" from their uncleanness, after their confession and repentance, and baptism, after which they would "observe all My ordinance"(Ezekiel 36:27-38), in a desolate land which has become as a "garden of Eden", "then they will know that I am the LORD".

[Clownboat]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #462]

The house of Israel would be given a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 36:27) after having been gathered out of the nations (Ezekiel 36:24), and Ephraim/Israel and Judah will be placed in the land given to Jacob, under the "My servant David", who will be king (Ezekiel 37:24). The nations/Gentiles will be ruled from Jerusalem under a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15).

But who's going to oversee it? It wouldn't be Jesus, who was supposedly sacrificed for the sins of the world, because sacrifices for sin are still being made (Ezekiel 45).

Ezekiel 37:24 made it clear that "My servant David will be king". Ezekiel 34:23 declares that "I will set over them one shepherd, My servant David".... and My servant David will be prince among them".... "and they (Israel) will dwell securely. Or as stated in Hosea 3:5, "Israel will return and seek the Lord their God, and David their king...in the last days". We are simply in the lead up to the last days, and Judah, the Jews, are living in the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37:25), waiting for Ephraim/Israel to be gathered out of the nations (Ezekiel 36:24). As for "sins", "everyone will die for his own iniquity (sins)" (Jeremiah 31:30). No one who has sinned will escape death, no matter what they believe or profess. If Yeshua prayed, "let this cup pass from me", how is it that the cup didn't pass from him? (Matthew 26:39). Did he not have the faith required to have his prayer met? Did Abraham sacrifice his son Isaac, or was the simple fact that he was willing to do so enough to find God's favor? If your sins had been forgiven, then you could cancel your next doctor's appointment. As it is, you best go to your doctor and maybe prolong your life another 24 hours, whether in pain or not. What you believe and what is reality are two different things. Elijah could heal the sick and raise the dead, and so could Yeshua prior to his so called death. Yeshua's message was the kingdom, which is built on justice and righteousness (doing the right thing). Justice is defined in Revelation 20:12, whereas the dead are raised and judged according to their deeds, whether good or bad. The only benevolence given was to Israel, because of their "holy name" (Ezekiel 36:21), to set up the kingdom (Ezekiel 36:29), whereas they were "saved" from their uncleanness, after their confession and repentance, and baptism, after which they would "observe all My ordinance"(Ezekiel 36:27-38), in a desolate land which has become as a "garden of Eden", "then they will know that I am the LORD".

You're preaching is not appreciated here. Please find a street corning and a soap box as this site is for debate.

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #462]

The house of Israel would be given a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 36:27) after having been gathered out of the nations (Ezekiel 36:24), and Ephraim/Israel and Judah will be placed in the land given to Jacob, under the "My servant David", who will be king (Ezekiel 37:24). The nations/Gentiles will be ruled from Jerusalem under a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15).

But who's going to oversee it? It wouldn't be Jesus, who was supposedly sacrificed for the sins of the world, because sacrifices for sin are still being made (Ezekiel 45).

Ezekiel 37:24 made it clear that "My servant David will be king". Ezekiel 34:23 declares that "I will set over them one shepherd, My servant David".... and My servant David will be prince among them".... "and they (Israel) will dwell securely. Or as stated in Hosea 3:5, "Israel will return and seek the Lord their God, and David their king...in the last days". We are simply in the lead up to the last days, and Judah, the Jews, are living in the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37:25), waiting for Ephraim/Israel to be gathered out of the nations (Ezekiel 36:24). As for "sins", "everyone will die for his own iniquity (sins)" (Jeremiah 31:30). No one who has sinned will escape death, no matter what they believe or profess. If Yeshua prayed, "let this cup pass from me", how is it that the cup didn't pass from him? (Matthew 26:39). Did he not have the faith required to have his prayer met? Did Abraham sacrifice his son Isaac, or was the simple fact that he was willing to do so enough to find God's favor? If your sins had been forgiven, then you could cancel your next doctor's appointment. As it is, you best go to your doctor and maybe prolong your life another 24 hours, whether in pain or not. What you believe and what is reality are two different things. Elijah could heal the sick and raise the dead, and so could Yeshua prior to his so called death. Yeshua's message was the kingdom, which is built on justice and righteousness (doing the right thing). Justice is defined in Revelation 20:12, whereas the dead are raised and judged according to their deeds, whether good or bad. The only benevolence given was to Israel, because of their "holy name" (Ezekiel 36:21), to set up the kingdom (Ezekiel 36:29), whereas they were "saved" from their uncleanness, after their confession and repentance, and baptism, after which they would "observe all My ordinance"(Ezekiel 36:27-38), in a desolate land which has become as a "garden of Eden", "then they will know that I am the LORD".

You're preaching is not appreciated here. Please find a street corning and a soap box as this site is for debate.

I can see you are flustered when someone shows the Scriptural source for the "last days"/"end of time", and it's comparison to conditions of today's being comparable to that of the end of the age. When one debates, they present their evidence, on the other hand, one does not complain when they have no defendable position. The "last days" is with respect to the end of the age, and the beginning of the "kingdom", as defined by Yeshua. Your time would be better served studying current events, Scripture as defined by Yeshua, and history, instead of presenting a false narrative, unless of course if you are being paid a good salary by CNN.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #468]

I can see you are flustered when someone shows the Scriptural source for the "last days"/"end of time", and it's comparison to conditions of today's being comparable to that of the end of the age. When one debates, they present their evidence, on the other hand, one does not complain when they have no defendable position. The "last days" is with respect to the end of the age, and the beginning of the "kingdom", as defined by Yeshua. Your time would be better served studying current events, Scripture as defined by Yeshua, and history, instead of presenting a false narrative, unless of course if you are being paid a good salary by CNN.

So where is Yeshua going to be while the prince is making the sin offerings in Ezekiel 45?

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #468]

I can see you are flustered when someone shows the Scriptural source for the "last days"/"end of time", and it's comparison to conditions of today's being comparable to that of the end of the age. When one debates, they present their evidence, on the other hand, one does not complain when they have no defendable position. The "last days" is with respect to the end of the age, and the beginning of the "kingdom", as defined by Yeshua. Your time would be better served studying current events, Scripture as defined by Yeshua, and history, instead of presenting a false narrative, unless of course if you are being paid a good salary by CNN.

So where is Yeshua going to be while the prince is making the sin offerings in Ezekiel 45?

No one died die for the forgiveness of yours or anyone else's sins. Your mixing the false prophet Paul's false gospel of the cross/grace, with the gospel of Yeshua. Yeshua preached the kingdom, which is built on the rock, which is justice and righteousness (Isaiah 28:16-17). That is to say, there will be a judgment day, and the judgment depends on how you act, whether righteous or unrighteous/wicked/lawless, not on how you wish you were, or think you are. You remain in your sins, which is gaged by the poorness of your health. As for the prince, with respect to the house of Israel, in Ezekiel 45.17, "it is the prince's part to provide the burnt offering". Did Abraham actually sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering, or was there a substitution made, or was it even necessary? As for the Passover lamb sacrifice, it was totally eaten by the house of Israel, which is to say in a Passover last supper sense, they would have to eat the Word made flesh, which is to say, consume the Word of God, and the blood over the lintel, which represents life, the Spirit of God/Revelation, is now replaced by having the Commandments printed on the lintel to turn away the angels of death.

Except for those who didn't receive the mark of the beast, who rose from the dead, and reign with Christ for a 1000 years (Revelation 20:4), as they had already died, everyone else will still taste death for their sins, but only those considered accursed, will die before the age of 100 (Isaiah 65.20). If you confess and repent, which is to turn away from sin, produce good fruit/works (Matthew 3:7-12) and be baptized in the spirit, which is to say be reborn in the Spirit of God, which is to say "born of God" (1 John 3:9), whereas one "cannot sin, because he is born of God", you will remain in your sin, and you will look to your doctor to draw out a greater number of labored breaths before you die. If there was a church in the model of the early church of James, you could go to your elders to have them pray for the forgiveness of your sins and be healed, by the power of their prayer (James 5:13-20), supposing an unforgivable sin was not committed. One is healed based on the power of a righteous man's prayer, as with the prayers of Elijah. Per Ezekiel 34, the "fat" "shepherds" during the "last days", when David will be made the "one shepherd", the "fat" "shepherds"/leaders, who did not feed or heal the sheep, will be fed "judgment". As for who will rule over the nations with a rod of iron, it will be the "Word of God" (Revelation 19:13-15).