A Robot Alligator and God.

[Divine Insight]

Let's say that I build a robot alligator. I design it to look and act just like a real alligator. I program it to attack and devour anything that moves. Then I set it loose into the world.

The robot alligator eventually encounters a human child playing by the edge of the water. The child is moving so the alligator attacks the child and devours the child. Authorities just happen to see the whole event and capture the robot alligator. They quickly discover that it is indeed a robot and not a real alligator. They also discover that I am the one who designed it, built it, programmed it, and set it loose where it could potentially harm humans.

What do you think would happen to me? I would instantly be arrested of course, and viewed as a heinous criminal who had done a very bad thing indeed. I would most likely get life imprisonment or worse.

But just look around at the real world and the real alligators. If the world was created by a God then God has done precisely what I described above. God designed and created alligators that are programmed to attack and eat anything that moves, including humans.

So why is it that, as a human, if I create an alligator and set it loose in the world I am considered to be a heinous criminal, but it's perfectly fine for a God to do precisely the same thing?

Question for Debate: Why the double standard?

[PinSeeker]

God brought man into this world. God. Not man.

Right, and man disobeyed God. Man. Disobeyed. God. Gee, I hope I wasn't unclear...

[Divine Insight]

Man brought sin and death into this world, DI. Man. Not God. God's in the process of redeeming said world, and will finally set things right one day. Why doesn't He do it right now? Well, because the fullness of the Gentiles has not been brought in, and True Israel is not yet complete. When will that happen? Well, it'll all happen in the fullness of time, DI. God's time.

Sorry PinSeeker, but if this is the best sales pitch you can come up with for your favorite religion all I can say is "No Sale".

Your religion would need to have a pathetically ignorant and stupid God. Why would I buy into a religion that boasts of having such an ignorant and stupid God?

Just because you bought into such an obviously false religion is no reason for me to follow you over that ridiculous cliff.

What you are telling me is that your favorite God cannot be trusted. He's evil, and basically no better than someone like Adolf Hitler. I'm willing to bet that your God casts people who refuse to obey him into a fiery furnace too.

So the God you are trying to sell is no better than Hitler.

Hitler had a "Higher Plan" too. He wanted to make the world "Perfect", filled with only blue-eyed, blond-haired Germans. You might thing that doesn't found very good if you don't happen to be a blue-eyed blond-haired German. But fear not, Hitler has a plan for you! You can be a slave to blue-eyed blond-haired Germans.

See, Hitler has a plan for you. And it's not up to you to like that plan. You are supposed to humble yourself, give yourself over entirely to Hitler's WILL, and be thankful for whatever he sees fit to give you in return.

Sound familiar?

Yep, that's your favorite God in a nutshell PinSeeker. Bow down and worship him, love him with all your heart, soul, and mind. And do whatever he commands you to do with out question and be "Grateful" that he isn't killing you.

Your God in a nutshell.

And if you contract Ebola just say, "Thank you Jesus!".

Don't you dare complain! Jesus knows what's best for you. And you have no clue, because you are just a clueless human who doesn't know anything. You don't dare question the wisdom of Jesus.

That's what you are preaching, whether you realize it or not.

And you expect people to buy such nonsense?

Surely you're joking?

[StuartJ]

Man brought sin and death into this world, DI. Man. Not God. God's in the process of redeeming said world, and will finally set things right one day. Why doesn't He do it right now? Well, because the fullness of the Gentiles has not been brought in, and True Israel is not yet complete. When will that happen? Well, it'll all happen in the fullness of time, DI. God's time.

I see, it's because of the Eve and the Talking Serpent business ....

And when every Gentile (racist term there) has received a Christian tract, Jesus will be free to burst through the clouds with his armies of angels to exterminate those who thought it was just primitive, superstitious make-believe ...

... or preferred to remain loyal to their own make-believe.

You haven't demonstrated that your "God" is God.

I put it to you that your "God" appears as mythological as anyone else's ...

... and your notion of "redeeming the world" looks like a fraud.

If you are dealing in truth it should be quite straightforward to demonstrate so.

[Divine Insight]

God brought man into this world. God. Not man.

Right, and man disobeyed God. Man. Disobeyed. God. Gee, I hope I wasn't unclear...

So this is supposed to justify God becoming an evil demon who torments men and curses them with evil curses and suffering?

Sorry PinSeeker, but disobeying someone doesn't justify them becoming an evil criminal.

What in the world would ever make you think that it would?

If you bought this theology from someone I'd suggest returning it and demanding your money back.

[1213]

...
But just look around at the real world and the real alligators. If the world was created by a God then God has done precisely what I described above. God designed and created alligators that are programmed to attack and eat anything that moves, including humans....

Maybe it would be problem, if we would not know to be careful, or we would not be able to be careful. I think we are not helpless idiots, that is why I dont see alligators as a problem.

[Tcg]

...
But just look around at the real world and the real alligators. If the world was created by a God then God has done precisely what I described above. God designed and created alligators that are programmed to attack and eat anything that moves, including humans....

Maybe it would be problem, if we would not know to be careful, or we would not be able to be careful. I think we are not helpless idiots, that is why I dont see alligators as a problem.

Are there many alligators in Finland?

The answer to this question may give us a hint as to why you don't understand the very real danger alligators pose.

Given that I live in Ohio, I'm not terribly afraid of Polar Bears.

All of this is simply a diversion to distract from the very real issues the OP presents. Perhaps at some point you'll attempt to address them.

[Divine Insight]

...
But just look around at the real world and the real alligators. If the world was created by a God then God has done precisely what I described above. God designed and created alligators that are programmed to attack and eat anything that moves, including humans....

Maybe it would be problem, if we would not know to be careful, or we would not be able to be careful. I think we are not helpless idiots, that is why I dont see alligators as a problem.

So then if I build robot alligators and set them loose I shouldn't be held responsible if they eat someone's kid right? That kid should have known to be careful.

That's your argument?

If I ever decide to build robot alligators I hope you're on the jury when I go to trial.

[Divine Insight]

...
But just look around at the real world and the real alligators. If the world was created by a God then God has done precisely what I described above. God designed and created alligators that are programmed to attack and eat anything that moves, including humans....

Maybe it would be problem, if we would not know to be careful, or we would not be able to be careful. I think we are not helpless idiots, that is why I dont see alligators as a problem.

By the way, does your same argument apply to Ebola?

What if instead of building robot alligators I go into a lab and grow some Ebola and then set it loose in the environment where humans might be attacked by it and become deathly sick and die?

Does your same argument hold? It's the people's fault for not being careful not to contract Ebola?

I'm pretty sure the authorities would be quick to arrest me and charge me with a horrific crime.

They aren't about to just say, "Hey DI, great work in creating Ebola! Too bad those idiots contracted it. They should have known better, just ask 1213."

[JoeyKnothead]

God brought man into this world. God. Not man.

Right, and man disobeyed God. Man. Disobeyed. God. Gee, I hope I wasn't unclear...

I challenge you to show you speak truth in this regard, and have conveniently set up an OP just so's ya can.

[ttruscott]

God designed and created alligators that are programmed to attack and eat anything that moves, including humans.

So why is it that, as a human, if I create an alligator and set it loose in the world I am considered to be a heinous criminal, but it's perfectly fine for a God to do precisely the same thing?

Question for Debate: Why the double standard?

First, GOD didn't create evil and suffering. Some created people did against HIS desires. YES, HE allowed them to choose by their free will and they chose to ignore HIS warnings of the natural consequences of becoming evil and rebelled against HIM.

When GOD designed the earth as a prison for evil spirits to sequester them from the polite society of heaven and to limit their predations to other sinners, HE did not design this world to be a paradise but to reflect the natural consequences of choosing evil, ie full of death and suffering.

The reason HE made this world in this way was not to cause random suffering but to show HIS sinful elect what the effects of their sin has upon their society. This has the effect of moving the sinful elect to repent and to seek a saviour to free them from sin so they are able to chose to become holy.

Once the last of those who can repent and become holy are sanctified, then the remaining folk who will not repent and become holy will be banished to the outer darkness, cleansing this reality from all evil, partly by repentance, partly by judgment.

The reason this process has taken so long is due to both the fragility and the stubbornness of the sinful elect against accepting the lessons of life, repentance and judgement.

Also GOD's alligators do their eating within a system which is perfectly managed by GOD so
- no innocent person ever suffers, ie, only those guilty of evil suffer
- no person suffers more than justice demands for their sins.
- Suffering is for two purposes: 1. as a punishment for some sinners to try to elicit a change of behaviour ie it is rehabilitative and 2. and for others, as a judgement upon their evil, a small sentencing of suffering without any rehabilitative intent, but short of damnation.

So, contrary to the suggestion that GOD is randomly causing pain and suffering with erratic alligators for no reason, Christian doctrine teachings are quite different and this strawman argument misses the mark of addressing Christianity in the least.