As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God yet there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet .
In this debate i want every one who has a good knowledge to give the reasonable proofs that Jesus is god or at any point of the bible where Jesus said worship me .
At the same time i will be providing proofs from the bible that Jesus is not God but only a messenger
as for a start i will ask a question :
What Are The Qualification Of God ?!
Is Jesus God ?!!
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Post #51
Gods have lots of human characteristics. Let's say "God is love" ... some people say that.. well, love is a human characteristic. If God is jealous or angry, or sad or happy, if is just or fair or has any kinds of FEELING.. those are human characteristics.mms20102 wrote: [Replying to post 47 by JLB32168]
I thought gods have no human nature yet you didn't speak about the fact the verses were before he was captured
Many gods are also depicted in human form, again, human characteristics. Humans create things, and sometimes, gods are said to create things. This is a human characteristic.
Some gods even have a sense of right and wrong. Quite human, that characteristic.
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mms20102
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Post #52
[Replying to Blastcat]
well I'm sorry but let me correct your words " if " u assume that god exist then god is the one who gave you emotions but some of those emotions god never had >>
human can't create but can develop out of available resources god creates out of nothing
so god can't have human form human feelings but human can have feelings given to him by god
god can't be sad over excited or jealous as in Quran " And had your god willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], Are you going to force people become believers?
if god has human characteristics then u would find defects in nature or in his creation
which is not available every thing was created with balance and perfect
well I'm sorry but let me correct your words " if " u assume that god exist then god is the one who gave you emotions but some of those emotions god never had >>
human can't create but can develop out of available resources god creates out of nothing
so god can't have human form human feelings but human can have feelings given to him by god
god can't be sad over excited or jealous as in Quran " And had your god willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], Are you going to force people become believers?
if god has human characteristics then u would find defects in nature or in his creation
which is not available every thing was created with balance and perfect
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JehovahsWitness
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Post #54
I know, but there is a J in English the language I write and speak in.mms20102 wrote: [Replying to post 50 by JehovahsWitness]
between there is no " J " for " yehwa " as jewish never had " J "
Anyway, why are you telling me this? What has that got to do with my post?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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mms20102
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Post #55
[Replying to post 54 by JehovahsWitness]
I said this because translation of names main a lot of confusion some times just like jesus name is actually not jesus and peter is not peter and changed " yahwa " to jahova
y is not like J it was just a side comment
I said this because translation of names main a lot of confusion some times just like jesus name is actually not jesus and peter is not peter and changed " yahwa " to jahova
y is not like J it was just a side comment
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JehovahsWitness
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Post #56
mms20102 wrote: [Replying to post 54 by JehovahsWitness]
I said this because translation of names main a lot of confusion some times just like jesus name is actually not jesus and peter is not peter and changed " yahwa " to jahova
y is not like J it was just a side comment
Oh okay, you might like to consider creating your own thread for side comments like that because they risk derailing the thread topic. Thanks for your observations though.
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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JLB32168
Post #57
Christ had two natures – divine and human. He is different. He experiences hunger as a human but his divinity remains immutable.mms20102 wrote: I thought gods have no human nature yet you didn't speak about the fact the verses were before he was captured
I am a man and a teacher. If I leave teaching then my "teacherness" has changed, but I still remain a man - that part's unchanging.
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mms20102
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Post #58
[Replying to JLB32168]
And still you are dodging answer the questions each time and moving around for no reason
1- If god can't defend himself and flee from romans to the garden to pray to himself to rescue him then he can't have the powerful to help himself
2- why this verse was removed as a fabrication "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these three are one." 1st Epistle of John 5:7 - AV
3- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16 - AV)
removed as a fabrication
now after you answer I want an evidence from your bible that Jesus is god
And still you are dodging answer the questions each time and moving around for no reason
1- If god can't defend himself and flee from romans to the garden to pray to himself to rescue him then he can't have the powerful to help himself
2- why this verse was removed as a fabrication "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these three are one." 1st Epistle of John 5:7 - AV
3- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16 - AV)
removed as a fabrication
now after you answer I want an evidence from your bible that Jesus is god
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JLB32168
Post #59
Christ was quite able to defend himself and said as much since he could call angels to come to his aid.mms20102 wrote:1- If god can't defend himself . . .
What is the offspring of a female F. domesticus or common housecat? If my son has a son/daughter, what species will s/he be?mms20102 wrote:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16 - AV)
Post #60
[Replying to post 52 by mms20102]
Hi, mms20102
If we don't know the characteristics of god, how can we know the characteristics of god?
Who wants to be wrong?
I'm an atheist, I do not assume that any gods exist.
You might try to keep that in mind.
For example, I am "creative".
You prefer to use the word "develop" instead of "create" when it comes to humans.
I don't have such restrictions on my word use.
You might BELIEVE that "god creates out of nothing", but I have to remind you that you haven't established that belief as a fact. I certainly do NOT believe that any gods exist, or that the particular one you are talking about can " create out of nothing". I don't even know what you MEAN by that statement.
You SEEM to be describing some magic of some sort. I don't believe in magic, either.
Where are we now?
1. You would need to establish that humans cannot create.
2. You would need to establish that some gods can indeed exist.
3. You would need to establish that YOUR god exists the way that you believe it does.
4. You would need to establish that you know what god can do or not.
5. You would need to establish that magic is possible.
6. You would need to establish that "creating out of nothing " is possible.
I don't envy the task ahead of you.
You have just added another claim that you would have to establish as fact.
That would be number 7.
This doesn't make sense to me. You god doesn't LOVE? Your god doesn't get angry, or vengeful or care? .... But again, that kind of statement isn't justified. I don't believe it. I would have to be persuaded that it's fact and not just your opinion or belief.
If it IS just your opinion or belief that you really can't justify, I can't debate it with you. You have those opinions and beliefs. I don't. IF you can justify your beliefs and opinions, then maybe I can be persuaded to believe them TOO.
But so far, you have not. I will be watching out for them when you present them.
As John Lennon once said: " Number Nine".
You believe that your god can't be sad or over excited... or jealous ... Ok, fair enough. But if I can ask you here a question to help me understand...
Can the essence of the divine being be grasped by man by way of comparison and analogy?
I'm sorry, but I don't think that cancer is very balanced or perfect. I think again, you are presenting your belief/opinion as a fact, and that, I can never accept.
I repeat so many times in here that opinions are simply not the same as facts.
So, I will repeat the question I asked above in THREE parts this time... I think it's a very important one for me to understand your position at this juncture:
1. Do you know the characteristics of the god you believe in?
2. If YES, how do you know them?
3. IF NO, then why are you telling me that god doesn't have human emotions?
So, please, I would need those answered in order to be able to continue our discussion, otherwise, I'm afraid that I will not understand what you are talking about here.
Thanks in advance.
Oh.. and good luck with those proofs.
Hi, mms20102
If we don't know the characteristics of god, how can we know the characteristics of god?
Don't be sorry, I'm always grateful to be corrected.mms20102 wrote:well I'm sorry but let me correct your words
Who wants to be wrong?
And " if " I DON'T assume that?mms20102 wrote:" if " u assume that god exist then god is the one who gave you emotions but some of those emotions god never had >>
I'm an atheist, I do not assume that any gods exist.
You might try to keep that in mind.
I don't know what you mean by that. Humans create all the time.mms20102 wrote:human can't create
For example, I am "creative".
To me, that's just playing with words, and assuming what you want to prove.mms20102 wrote:but can develop out of available resources god creates out of nothing
You prefer to use the word "develop" instead of "create" when it comes to humans.
I don't have such restrictions on my word use.
You might BELIEVE that "god creates out of nothing", but I have to remind you that you haven't established that belief as a fact. I certainly do NOT believe that any gods exist, or that the particular one you are talking about can " create out of nothing". I don't even know what you MEAN by that statement.
You SEEM to be describing some magic of some sort. I don't believe in magic, either.
Where are we now?
1. You would need to establish that humans cannot create.
2. You would need to establish that some gods can indeed exist.
3. You would need to establish that YOUR god exists the way that you believe it does.
4. You would need to establish that you know what god can do or not.
5. You would need to establish that magic is possible.
6. You would need to establish that "creating out of nothing " is possible.
I don't envy the task ahead of you.
You will have to try to use phrases like "In my opinion... " or "it is my belief that...." Because the way you state things.. its as if you have established them as facts. You haven't yet. I would have to be persuaded that they are.mms20102 wrote:so god can't have human form
You have just added another claim that you would have to establish as fact.
That would be number 7.
That would be number 8.mms20102 wrote:human feelings but human can have feelings given to him by god
This doesn't make sense to me. You god doesn't LOVE? Your god doesn't get angry, or vengeful or care? .... But again, that kind of statement isn't justified. I don't believe it. I would have to be persuaded that it's fact and not just your opinion or belief.
If it IS just your opinion or belief that you really can't justify, I can't debate it with you. You have those opinions and beliefs. I don't. IF you can justify your beliefs and opinions, then maybe I can be persuaded to believe them TOO.
But so far, you have not. I will be watching out for them when you present them.
Do you begin to see how making unsubstantiated claims like that only INCREASES your difficulties?mms20102 wrote:god can't be sad over excited or jealous as in Quran " And had your god willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], Are you going to force people become believers?
As John Lennon once said: " Number Nine".
You believe that your god can't be sad or over excited... or jealous ... Ok, fair enough. But if I can ask you here a question to help me understand...
Can the essence of the divine being be grasped by man by way of comparison and analogy?
And you have stopped making claims at number 10.mms20102 wrote:if god has human characteristics then u would find defects in nature or in his creation
which is not available every thing was created with balance and perfect
I'm sorry, but I don't think that cancer is very balanced or perfect. I think again, you are presenting your belief/opinion as a fact, and that, I can never accept.
I repeat so many times in here that opinions are simply not the same as facts.
So, I will repeat the question I asked above in THREE parts this time... I think it's a very important one for me to understand your position at this juncture:
1. Do you know the characteristics of the god you believe in?
2. If YES, how do you know them?
3. IF NO, then why are you telling me that god doesn't have human emotions?
So, please, I would need those answered in order to be able to continue our discussion, otherwise, I'm afraid that I will not understand what you are talking about here.
Thanks in advance.
Oh.. and good luck with those proofs.
