How Apologists Defend God's Genocides

[unknown soldier]

If there's one issue that keeps Christian apologists busy, it's that thorny issue of the Biblical accounts of God killing huge numbers of people. According to one source, the death toll at God's hands totals 2.8 million people. How do apologists "apologize" for God's deadly ways?

It's important to understand that it's a tenet of apologetics that God is perfectly righteous, and therefore nothing he does can be considered evil. Starting with this conclusion, apologists seek reasons to free God from any charges of immorality. I'd appreciate everybody's input regarding their own reasons why God is good despite his murderous ways, but here are some reasons to start with:

• God's killings are actually good, it's just that we cannot understand why it was good for him to kill.
• God is able to kill anybody he wants to, so it's OK for him to kill. His might is right!
• God is the creator of all life including human life, and therefore as the creator of life he can snuff it out any time and any way he chooses to.
• Since God is perfectly just, his perfect justice cannot tolerate sin, and he must eliminate sin by eliminating sinners.
• God kills those he sees as a threat to his "chosen people."
• We Christians invented and own morality, so if unbelievers say God's killings are evil, then they are stealing our morality.

[1213]

Around three quarters of conceptions fail to come to term

How do you know that? Why should I believe you?

Using the term babies and talking about selling body parts for what is simply a mass of tissue is just a ridiculous tactic to elicit an emotional response

Ok, so, if I would call you simply a mass of tissue, which you are also, it would be then ok to kill you?

Can you tell, at what point it would have been ok to kill you?

You haven't explained how you knew when you became you.

That is an interesting question, because I think it is really difficult to know surely. I would say right at the beginning.

And now I would like to know, when did you become you?

Also, if I would say I became me, when I was 27 years old, would it have been ok to kill me day before that?

I think you have extremely poor argument to defend the murdering of small babies.

[1213]

If God wanted to give everyone a chance, why didn't he give us a level playing field. If everyone was given similar opportunities in life it might be a little more reasonable to judge the so-called unrighteous based on the decisions they made. God really doesn't give everyone a chance to become virtuous

I disagree with that. I think all have equal opportunity to become virtuous, or righteous. That person has life, is equal and similar opportunity. That what is the goal, doesnt need anything else than that person has life. I think this could be compared to game of poker, it does not really matter what cards are dealt, what you do with the cards matter. There are different "cards", but it does not men that you cant "play" them all well. I am absolutely sure that person who doesnt want to be righteous, would not want it in any case, no matter what "cards" would be dealt.

[1213]

Why do you think it is wrong if God does not give eternal life for all?

I prefer life over death.

Sorry, I dont think that answers to my question.

So you think there are good religious reasons to kill people. ...

I dont think there is good religious reasons to kill anyone. And I dont think humans have right to kill anyone.

I also see you believe there is no reason to feed the hungry and cure the sick. You like it that way.

You dont seem to like truth. I think it is good to help others.

But you just assert that God has the right to kill us because he presumably created us. Where did you get that idea? Is it just your own opinion?

I think it is just logically and objectively so. If person gives a gift, he has right to decide what kind of gift he gives. Or what do you think, if you go to your friends birthday and give for example a cake as a gift, it is ok, if the hero says "no, thats not good enough, give me more"?

Again, God never shows up when the process of human reproduction takes place. People are there throughout that process. So if we have creators, we can actually see those creators: Mom and Dad. As our creators, they have the responsibility to nurture our lives, and we punish them if they kill their kids. As I see it, if God exists, then he has the moral duty to preserve our lives.

Yes, and when people are evil and make life miserable suffering, I think it is ok if God does not allow it to continue forever.

But I am disappointed, if you dont understand the difference between creating and reproduction. Humans simply dont create cells, people produce them, because their body is set (by God) to do so.

[Willum]

[Replying to 1213 in post #49]

ME!?!?
I said THEM.

I am perfectly righteous. It is all those people Christianity says are in Hell.

[Miles]

Which is what, day 1 where fertilization takes place?

That's a baby? Really? I ask because it certainly doesn't look like any baby I've ever seen, or fit the definition of "baby."

Yes, day 1, I think that is a baby. But obviously not very developed. If it would be ok to kill everyone who is not very developed, I think there would not be any limit on who could be killed. For example, if I would think atheists are not very developed, would it then be ok to kill atheist?

But having been born and no longer in the womb, atheists are developed. Fully developed, so your thinking would be bonkers.----------- To put it politely.


.

[brunumb]

Around three quarters of conceptions fail to come to term

How do you know that? Why should I believe you?

So you've never heard of miscarriages? Countless people desperately want babies but are denied that because of God's sloppy design of the reproductive system. Anyway, you don't have to believe me, you can just do a little research. But I'm thinking that you may not really want to know the truth.

Using the term babies and talking about selling body parts for what is simply a mass of tissue is just a ridiculous tactic to elicit an emotional response

Ok, so, if I would call you simply a mass of tissue, which you are also, it would be then ok to kill you?

Can you tell, at what point it would have been ok to kill you?

It's not just a matter of calling someone a mass of tissue. Why don't you do a bit of research and learn the difference between a lump of undifferentiated cells and a thinking, sentient human being. God seems quite comfortable killing millions of potential human beings in the womb, so what's your problem? Maybe God knows the difference between a baby and a fetus.

You haven't explained how you knew when you became you.

That is an interesting question, because I think it is really difficult to know surely. I would say right at the beginning.

And now I would like to know, when did you become you?

It is difficult as you said, but I would answer that it was when I was born. Science has tried to determine at what stage before that the brain actually becomes conscious, so it could be earlier. But a clump of cells with no nervous system or brain is not a human being. Is your big toe you?

Also, if I would say I became me, when I was 27 years old, would it have been ok to kill me day before that?

You are not even trying to be sensible now. You seem determined to argue your case with ridiculous scenarios. Is it because you have nothing else to offer?

I think you have extremely poor argument to defend the murdering of small babies.

That is a complete misrepresentation. Dishonesty is the last refuge when all else fails and you have nothing more to offer.

[brunumb]

I am absolutely sure that person who doesnt want to be righteous, would not want it in any case, no matter what "cards" would be dealt.

Please explain how you know that.

[unknown soldier]

Sorry, I dont think that answers to my question.

When I said I prefer life over death, I meant that I tend to see death as a bad thing. If God doles out death, then he's doing something evil as I see it.

I dont think there is good religious reasons to kill anyone.

Then you better tell God that.

And I dont think humans have right to kill anyone.

You should have told Abraham that when he agreed to murder Isaac for God.

You dont seem to like truth.

Oh, I can't stand it!

I think it is good to help others.

Again, you need to explain that to God. And while you're at it, tell him that killing people is not helping them.

But you just assert that God has the right to kill us because he presumably created us. Where did you get that idea? Is it just your own opinion?

I think it is just logically and objectively so.

I disagree! So much for objectivity.

If person gives a gift, he has right to decide what kind of gift he gives. Or what do you think, if you go to your friends birthday and give for example a cake as a gift, it is ok, if the hero says "no, thats not good enough, give me more"?

When giving, it's not normally proper to take back what was given. And as far as birthdays are concerned, I see no problem with asking for more. Why can't God figure this out if I can?

Yes, and when people are evil and make life miserable suffering, I think it is ok if God does not allow it to continue forever.

Can you cite some people you think are evil and that you wish God would kill?

Finally, if I created a sweet little girl, then according to your God-given morality, I would have the right to slit her throat! It seems to me that your theology is based on hatred for people. You keep categorizing them as evil wretches and that the world would be better off if they were dead. I can see just why Christianity has led to so much violence in the past.

[1213]

I am absolutely sure that person who doesnt want to be righteous, would not want it in any case, no matter what "cards" would be dealt.

Please explain how you know that.

I think so because how I see people to act. People who dont want to be righteous, make all kind of excuses why Bible is wrong.

[1213]

Countless people desperately want babies but are denied that because of God's sloppy design of the reproductive system.

So, now it is Gods fault that people cant "create" babies? Didnt you previously think it is people who create life?

It's not just a matter of calling someone a mass of tissue. Why don't you do a bit of research and learn the difference between a lump of undifferentiated cells and a thinking, sentient human being. God seems quite comfortable killing millions of potential human beings in the womb, so what's your problem? Maybe God knows the difference between a baby and a fetus.

God allows all kind of people to die, not only unborn babies.