Jesus is Imaginary!

[POI]

For debate: (Question 1) Is he? Which conclusion requires less spin? He's real <or> he's imaginary?

Going back 5 years or so, I remember a video I watched. It was in the early days of me exchanging with theists on such debate sites. I just watched it again, in the hopes that my many exchanges with theists have since made this video seem quite simple/sophomoric/lame. And yet, maybe not-so-much?

Below are some of the apologetic answers Christians give, when applying petitionary and/or intercessory prayer for Jesus to appear -- (I added some more as well, above and beyond the video):

1) It would take away our free will for him to appear.
2) Jesus does not do anything which is not already in his will.
3) Jesus's ways are higher than ours. We cannot understand his ways.
4) He does appear to me. I hear his voice every day. Maybe he will for you too someday.
5) I saw Jesus appear in my toast/other.
6) Jesus no longer appears like he did back then.
7) His appearance would take away faith, and Jesus wants your faith.
8) He just hasn't answered your prayers yet.
9) You are not praying right or sincerely.
10) Prayer doesn't work like that.
11) This is not what scripture actually says.
12) Jesus's answer is sometimes "no".
13) Jesus is not a Genie in a bottle.

For debate: (Question 2) I may have missed some...? Christians, which excuses or answers do you give here?

Here is the video in question:



For debate: (Question 3) Since Jesus is not appearing to me when asked, isn't it the most common-sense answer to conclude "Jesus is imaginary"? If not, why not?

[TRANSPONDER]

...The necessary information would be Jesus doing what it takes to convinbce, which is more than trusting a very questionable old book....

I think it is not about trusting, or believing, but about understanding. It would be enough, if you would have the right understanding.

Sorry to keep pointing the finger but the passage shows that the capacity understanding - or desire to understand - is not lacking but Jesus deliberately speaks in a way (parables) to deny that understanding. It is Jesus choosing to deny the understanding that might convert and save them.

Of course I don't believe that Jesus said any such thing and this is simply early doctrine and no committee to vote on whether predestined damnation and pitching the Message to make sure there was way they could get saved was not the best idea. Or maybe they did and the chair said "Worry not, God predestined the believers never to notice that - not even when it's pointed out to them".

Denial of what the Bible plainly says and implies leads to the creation of a mental Bible that says what it is preferred it should say.

[POI]

All I read here is another "hand-wave" and also direct denial, without reasonable cause.

If a manual for a machine has for example 10 instructions and you pick 3 of them, is it reasonable to complain, if you can't make the machine work, when you have ignored the 7 other instructions?

You are suggesting that my given instructions are missing key points. But you have yet to demonstrate where. Let's investigate:

P1) Does God exist? Supposedly
P2) Does God want a relationship with all, especially the ones who seek him? Supposedly
P3) Is God capable of communicating? Supposedly
P4) Can God communicate his message in a way in which the recipient could no longer deny? Supposedly
P5) Have I asked for this communication earnestly and repetitively from both myself as well as from others? Yes.
P6) Does the Bible state God answers the call to all who seek him? Yes, in the three verses I listed.

[1213]

...
P6) Does the Bible state God answers the call to all who seek him? Yes, in the three verses I listed.

Why do you think your call has not been answered?

[TRANSPONDER]

...
P6) Does the Bible state God answers the call to all who seek him? Yes, in the three verses I listed.

Why do you think your call has not been answered?

Probably for the same reason my open invitation for anything persuasive from turning my bottle of water into wine, to Jesus rolling up for a chat - and nothing. Nothing by excuses, evasions and trying to pass off everyday occurrences as God's doing. There is not a shred of decent evidence that God is real, Jesus is living or the Bible is true.

And yet for a double slice of saved souls, it could be Just Done, not left to apologist to deny science, reason and even what the Bible actually says to try to peddle their beliefs

[POI]

...
P6) Does the Bible state God answers the call to all who seek him? Yes, in the three verses I listed.

Why do you think your call has not been answered?

Because of P1) thru P6): (i.e.):

P1) Does God exist? Supposedly
P2) Does God want a relationship with all, especially the ones who seek him? Supposedly
P3) Is God capable of communicating? Supposedly
P4) Can God communicate his message in a way in which the recipient could no longer deny? Supposedly
P5) Have I asked for this communication earnestly and repetitively from both myself as well as from others? Yes.
P6) Does the Bible state God answers the call to all who seek him? Yes, in the three verses I listed.

******************************

Why is the above not a sufficient reason?

[1213]

...
P6) Does the Bible state God answers the call to all who seek him? Yes, in the three verses I listed.

Why do you think your call has not been answered?

Because of P1) thru P6): (i.e.):

P1) Does God exist? Supposedly
P2) Does God want a relationship with all, especially the ones who seek him? Supposedly
P3) Is God capable of communicating? Supposedly
P4) Can God communicate his message in a way in which the recipient could no longer deny? Supposedly
P5) Have I asked for this communication earnestly and repetitively from both myself as well as from others? Yes.
P6) Does the Bible state God answers the call to all who seek him? Yes, in the three verses I listed.

******************************

Why is the above not a sufficient reason?

Sorry, I don't see how that answers to my question, why you think God has not answered to your call.

However, I think Bible is the proof for that God exists, wants relationship with all and is capable of communicating. If God would tell the same message that is in the Bible directly to you, would you then accept the message?

[TRANSPONDER]

...The necessary information would be Jesus doing what it takes to convinbce, which is more than trusting a very questionable old book....

I think it is not about trusting, or believing, but about understanding. It would be enough, if you would have the right understanding.

BVut you haven't.You have denied the evidence and even what the Bible says, for instance that Jesus would comeback before they were all dead and the Sanhedrin would see him come back.

It is rather you who who, trusting and believing in the Bible being right when it isn't as what it said would happen did not, and what you call 'understanding is making stuff up to prop up your Biblefaith, even if there is nothing in the Bible that supports it.

The best you could do was 'no man knows the day or the hour' which you Interpret (you say "Understand! - and the scare -quotes are fully deserved) to mean any time over a couple of thousand years or more, when it already said it should be in the next ten or twenty years at most.

coo.... 34 guests, I see. Welcome, all.

[TRANSPONDER]

...
P6) Does the Bible state God answers the call to all who seek him? Yes, in the three verses I listed.

Why do you think your call has not been answered?

Because of P1) thru P6): (i.e.):

P1) Does God exist? Supposedly
P2) Does God want a relationship with all, especially the ones who seek him? Supposedly
P3) Is God capable of communicating? Supposedly
P4) Can God communicate his message in a way in which the recipient could no longer deny? Supposedly
P5) Have I asked for this communication earnestly and repetitively from both myself as well as from others? Yes.
P6) Does the Bible state God answers the call to all who seek him? Yes, in the three verses I listed.

******************************

Why is the above not a sufficient reason?

Sorry, I don't see how that answers to my question, why you think God has not answered to your call.

However, I think Bible is the proof for that God exists, wants relationship with all and is capable of communicating. If God would tell the same message that is in the Bible directly to you, would you then accept the message?

There are times one really regrets the ban on foul language, but the short answer is because God doesn't exist, that's why and because the Bible is a crock, that's why, and if Jesus god rolled up with no better evidence than that...well I'd have some questions, and they would need a better response that denial, dismissal and jedi waves or I'd think I'd got a Flying saucer pilot in drag trying it on for some obscure reason rather than this really was Jesusgod.

[POI]

...
P6) Does the Bible state God answers the call to all who seek him? Yes, in the three verses I listed.

Why do you think your call has not been answered?

Because of P1) thru P6): (i.e.):

P1) Does God exist? Supposedly
P2) Does God want a relationship with all, especially the ones who seek him? Supposedly
P3) Is God capable of communicating? Supposedly
P4) Can God communicate his message in a way in which the recipient could no longer deny? Supposedly
P5) Have I asked for this communication earnestly and repetitively from both myself as well as from others? Yes.
P6) Does the Bible state God answers the call to all who seek him? Yes, in the three verses I listed.

******************************

Why is the above not a sufficient reason?

Sorry, I don't see how that answers to my question, why you think God has not answered to your call.

Since you made no attempt to challenge any of my premises, I'll then assume you agree. Thus, to answer your question, the answer then becomes simply.... Because the Bible gives false information.

1) However, I think Bible is the proof for that God exists, 2) wants relationship with all and is capable of communicating. 3) If God would tell the same message that is in the Bible directly to you, would you then accept the message?

1) How is the Bible proof of God's existence?
2) If this were true, he would have reached me.
3) Sure, why not, as long as I know it is from God. And since God has the ability to convince me, and wants a relationship, and I have asked for one, I then return the question back to YOU. Why hasn't he ever contacted me?

[TRANSPONDER]

let me guess; the claim exists (if the subject doesn't) and that some people have got brainwashed into believing it (by themselves or others) just as others have believed other creeds or fads, is supposed to be proof enough.Of course it falls far, far, short, just as does the Bible, and the problem is with the apologetics is they are nothing like good enough and require a whole lotta faith before anyone will accept them .

cue "Why do so many Americans believe it then?"

Answer, because cultural pump - priming has them over half the way there, before it even begins. That is why both sides know that control of Media, administration and education determines which dogma will obtain power and influence.