Why is god in hiding?

[JJ50]

If the Biblical god exists why does it hide away, making its existence a matter of faith not reality?

Those who claim there is evidence that god exists, can never provide that evidence.

[By Grace]

[Replying to post 53 by marco]

I reserve the right to be wrong on Greek history & pantheon because I was an obnoxious 7 th grader having problems of my own, and caring not a hoot about academics.

I don't have much admiration for Paul nor do I subscribe to the view that we are burdened with original sin.

Your personal opinion of Paul is yours; I do not share it. However that does not mean that your opinion gives you get a 'free ride" on dismissing what he says out of hand. By that, I mean that it may be that you are simply dismissing his writings

• because you may be atheistic
  because you may not believe in God
  because you may disdain those who are believers in God

Yet despite those possible positions that you hold, I find it sort of ironic/incongruent that the title of your OP
(1) presupposes that God exists
(2) is hiding
but that you simply reject the writings from one of that God's Apostles

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 59:

Context - I'm livin' in my own, but think I've got me something important to tell...

I reserve the right to be wrong on Greek history & pantheon because I was an obnoxious 7 th grader having problems of my own, and caring not a hoot about academics.

It's fine to accept we may be wrong. It's a whole 'nother deal to declare we're gonna carve us out a space just for us to do it.

I propose that here in these debates, we'd all do well to accept we may be wrong, but we aught'n hold our wrongs up to be a right. If we accept the "right to be wrong", we aughta hold ourselves accountable to a duckduckgo search somewhere in amongst it.


But I do respect that your statement indicates a self-reflective, opinion-changeable state of mind. I Just felt I had to tell it.

Even more'n that, I'm upset to know you did Greek History in seventh grade, while it was, I did me pot smokin' and frisbee throwin', and showin' off in front of the pretty yella haired girl across the way. Alas, I got me a doctorate for the first two, and a "you know, it's a shame restraining orders ain't more popular" on the last'n.

[ttruscott]

There are many reasons why some may consider that "god is in hiding" but they are all specious, and ego centric.

You think?

Isaiah 45:15 Truly you are a God who has been hiding himself, the God and Savior of Israel.

[Tcg]

Yet despite those possible positions that you hold,

People don't hold possible positions, they hold actual positions. In any case, it isn't valid to assume that the only thing that informs marco's opinion of Paul is the positions that he holds. This remains true even if you knew what those positions actually are.

I find it sort of ironic/incongruent that the title of your OP
(1) presupposes that God exists
(2) is hiding
but that you simply reject the writings from one of that God's Apostles

You shouldn't find this ironic/incongruent because the title of the OP and the OP itself was written by JJ50 not marco.

[By Grace]

[Replying to post 61 by ttruscott]
[Replying to post 55 by ttruscott]

Quote:
PCE Theology as I see it...

First, what do you mean by "PCE thinking"?

Second, you are taking one verse out of context, as you can see here below. Taking something out of context always makes a pretext

Isaiah 45:15 Truly, you are a God who hides yourself,
O God of Israel, the Savior.
16 All of them are put to shame and confounded;
the makers of idols go in confusion together.
17 But Israel is saved by the Lord
with everlasting salvation;
you shall not be put to shame or confounded
to all eternity.
18 For thus says the Lord,
who created the heavens
(he is God!),
who formed the earth and made it
(he established it;
he did not create it empty,
he formed it to be inhabited!):
“I am the Lord, and there is no other.

Therefore what is meant in the OP, and what is meant by God, seeing what He said in its context is far different than what the OP is attempting to falsely establish.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 55 by ttruscott]

Rom 1 says every human has seen the proof of YHWH's divinity and power but have repressed that proof of the truth so as to live with our sins with less guilt, the quintessence of our enslavement to evil.

Nope. Not even close. You are quoting from a snake oil sales manual. Gathering together a bunch of stories and stamping ;holy book' on the cover doesn't automatically invest the contents with credibility or veracity. The purpose of the contents is to suck in the punters using any means possible.

Thus we can know that proof is not able to redeem and make us holy. Therefore the existence of proof is highly overrated and it is in fact, useless to rescue sinners from their addiction to sin.

Evidence is only deemed overrated by those who have none to offer. Just another excuse. Faith is not a virtue. It is an appeal to gullibility. It is what convinces people to part with their hard-earned savings for unscrupulous scam artist.

This leaves only HIS grace granting us faith and building that faith, an unproven hope, to save us from our memory of the pleasures and profits of sin, guiding us to choose holiness by our free will which was returned to us by our rebirth when our enslavement to evil was broken. As being outside of HIS grace by their own free will decision, the satanic are eternally reprobate.

More snake oil. Pure rhetoric designed to snare the vulnerable.

Therefore by hiding HIMself, offering very little more proof than has already been given, GOD has set HIMself to build our faith, our unproven hope, as the sure fire method of redeeming HIS lost sheep and making them heaven ready to be HIS bride.

Hiding does nothing but create doubt and confusion. All of the gods invented by humans have been inaccessible for a very good reason. They are not there. The game of the preacher and his holy book is to market the best product he thinks the customers will buy. Heaven is an attractive proposition for those who have had a difficult life.

Quote: Those who claim there is evidence that god exists, can never provide that evidence.

This blanket statement (which is a no-no here on this forum) fails as it is based upon ignorance of the evidence and surmises that therefore none can exist, the black swan fallacy.

Hand waving. Everyone has a different threshold for what will convince them that extraordinary claims are true. Unfortunately, that threshold can be significantly lowered by indoctrination and social or peer pressure.

Or perhaps it is based upon the rejection of the evidence which then surmises that since it does not convince it is not real evidence even if the fault lies in the one who cannot be convinced...

The Bible itself is not evidence. It actually needs evidence to establish that any of the miraculous event in its pages actually occurred. There is none. In fact, evidence exists which show that the great flood, for example, never occurred and could not have occurred.

The life of Jesus is sketchy at best. Given the nature of the miraculous events associated with his three year ministry it is astonishing that nothing was recorded within that time frame. As it is, all we now have is hearsay anonymously recorded well distanced from the actual time of the events.

Christianity almost died out and was more or less legislated into continued existence. It did not survive because it had established itself as any truth.

There are currently more non-Christians than Christians and Christianity is in decline in developed countries.

The witness of billions as to its truthfulness is not evidence for that, but speaks more about the means by which religious beliefs are perpetuated. if billions believe a false thing, it is still a false thing.

The alleged indwelling of the Holy Spirit, teaching, guiding and helping, not available to those condemned already for unbelief, is testament to self-delusion as a means of justifying an otherwise unsupported belief.

You may reject this evidence as not convincing but by so doing you are affirming it is evidence. It is certainly not evidence for Zulu ancestor worship.

There is no evidence to reject.

[By Grace]

[Replying to post 64 by brunumb]

Quote: from # 55 by ttruscott
Rom 1 says every human has seen the proof of YHWH's divinity and power but have repressed that proof of the truth so as to live with our sins with less guilt, the quintessence of our enslavement to evil.

Nope. Not even close. You are quoting from a snake oil sales manual.........

Your mere opinion of the Bible does not invalidate what the Bible clearly states in its context. If you want to discuss what the Bible actually states, then that is one matter; and it necessitates dealing with the text itself. However it is quite a different matter to attempt to dismiss the entire Bible as useless solely based on what is personal preference, and perhaps prejudice.

The following are words taken from your post

overrated
another excuse
not a virtue
appeal to gullibility
unscrupulous scam artist
snake oil
snare the vulnerable
gods invented by humans
Heaven is an attractive proposition for those who have had a difficult life
indoctrination and social or peer pressure

I submit that the totality of vehemence in these words indicate a particularly prejudicial perspective whereby the poster may be unable or unwilling to judge the Bible by what the words and sentences therein actually mean in their context.

That is why the poster does not reply to the accurate paraphrase by ttruscott of Romans 1

To summarize the post, "brunumb, you are of course entitled to your opinions, but your opinions do not deal with the FACTS printed in the words paraphrased by ttruscott.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 65 by By Grace]

Your mere opinion of the Bible does not invalidate what the Bible clearly states in its context. If you want to discuss what the Bible actually states, then that is one matter; and it necessitates dealing with the text itself. However it is quite a different matter to attempt to dismiss the entire Bible as useless solely based on what is personal preference, and perhaps prejudice.

That is a double-edged sword. That the Bible represents truth is only an opinion. What it preaches is nothing more than opinion. Words quoted from within its pages cannot be used to argue anything before they have actually been verified. So far they have not been verified, hence the need for faith. Belief in the Bible is just personal preference, although I would argue that it is not a choice when such belief is largely propagated by the manipulation of vulnerable minds.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 65 by By Grace]

I submit that the totality of vehemence in these words indicate a particularly prejudicial perspective whereby the poster may be unable or unwilling to judge the Bible by what the words and sentences therein actually mean in their context.

What the words mean and the truth of the message conveyed by those words are not necessarily the same thing. The authors are largely anonymous. When they were written is uncertain. Words attributed to individuals cannot be verified. The motives of the authors are unclear. The miraculous events in its pages are unverified. There are no extant copies of any of the original texts. Accepting the contents as undeniable truth reflects an unwillingness to Judge the Bible with an open mind.

[By Grace]

[Replying to post 66 by brunumb]

STILL, you offer mere opinion instead of dealing with the words IN the Bible.

There is no engagement of the Bible on its own terms from ANY of your posts on this thread. Therefore, on my monitor, it seems as if you are content with chucking rocks from afar, and strangely, calling that "discussion" and / or "dealing with facts". I have other words to describe such a position, but I shall refrain.