72 virgins

Iam · Post by **Iam** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:48 pm

Can anybody claim to think it would be heaven to be "given" 72 purpose built automaton virgins who revert to virginhood after sex? Can any sane person possibly consider that heaven?
(I hope I haven't broken rules)

Allahakbar · Post by **Allahakbar** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:03 am

HaLi8993 wrote: @Â

First word spoken to Muhammad.....READ. Allah didn't even know that Muhammad couldn't read! Game over.
Nice Try!! Again this can only come from one has very little knowledge about Islam.

The exact circumstances of this first revelation was when angle Gabriel suddenly appeared before the Prophet (peace be upon him) while in seclusion, he ordered him to "Iqra!" (read, recite, repeat, proclaim). Muhammad (peace be upon him), in his terror thought he was being asked to read, so he stammered: "I am unlettered." The angel Gabriel again ordered him to "Iqra!" Muhammad (peace be upon him) again replied: "I am unlettered." The angel Gabriel now took a firm hold of him and commanded him "IQRAA IN THE NAME OF ALLAH WHO CREATED!" Now Muhammad (peace be upon him) began to understand that he was not being asked to read, but to recite, to repeat. He began to repeat after him, and Gabriel revealed to him the first verses of the Qur'an, those at the beginning of the chapter of Al-Alak -1-5:

"Read(Iqraa): In the name of your Lord who created, Created man from a clot. Read(Iqraa): And your Lord is the Most Bounteous, Who teaches by the pen, Teaches man that which he knew not."

Nice story that only the believer could believe, the thinker would dismiss it based solely on the fact that Jibreel never offered anything for muhammad to recite on the first TWO ocassions. So he meant READ just as all the translations translate it. Why don't the translations translate it as RECITE if that has now become the claim of the faithful?

keithprosser3 · Post by **keithprosser3** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:16 am

the thinker would dismiss it based solely on the fact that Jibreel never offered anything for muhammad to recite on the first TWO ocassions

But if J. didn't give anything for M. to recite, what did he give him to read?

Allahakbar · Post by **Allahakbar** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:58 am

keithprosser3 wrote:
the thinker would dismiss it based solely on the fact that Jibreel never offered anything for muhammad to recite on the first TWO ocassions
But if J. didn't give anything for M. to recite, what did he give him to read?

That is precisely the question Keith, thank you for clarifying my sometimes rambling points.

Burninglight · Post by **Burninglight** » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:10 pm

I wouldn't want to live an Islamic life for 72 grapes

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:53 pm

@Â

Nice story that only the believer could believe, the thinker would dismiss it based solely on the fact that Jibreel never offered anything for muhammad to recite on the first TWO ocassions. So he meant READ just as all the translations translate it. Why don't the translations translate it as RECITE if that has now become the claim of the faithful?

How can a disbeliever believe?? Angel Gabriel Â offered the verses in question to read. The Arabic language being so rich in meaning only proves that one word has many meanings all complimenting each other, you are mistaken in saying the translation does not read "recite" there are translations such as Sahih International that read exactly that, as well as others that say read and proclaim.

Sahih International
"Recite in the name of your Lord who created"

Therefore the claim of the faithful is correct!!!

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:54 pm

@ Keith

But if J. didn't give anything for M. to recite, what did he give him to read?

He did give him something to recite, the very first verses to be sent to him as revelation.

10CC · Post by **10CC** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:14 am

HaLi8993 wrote: @Â

Nice story that only the believer could believe, the thinker would dismiss it based solely on the fact that Jibreel never offered anything for muhammad to recite on the first TWO ocassions. So he meant READ just as all the translations translate it. Why don't the translations translate it as RECITE if that has now become the claim of the faithful?
How can a disbeliever believe?? Angel Gabriel Â offered the verses in question to read.1 The Arabic language being so rich in meaning only proves that one word has many meanings all complimenting each other, you are mistaken in saying the translation does not read "recite" there are translations such as Sahih International that read exactly that, as well as others that say read and proclaim.

Sahih International
"Recite in the name of your Lord who created"2

Therefore the claim of the faithful is correct!!!

1: Where are these written verses now? And why didn't he know muhammad couldn't read those verses?
2: Why did he not provide any verses to recite other than the written ones you claim in 1. And why didn't he know muhammad couldn't read those verses?

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:01 am

@Â 10CCÂ

1: Where are these written verses now? And why didn't he know muhammad couldn't read those verses?
2: Why did he not provide any verses to recite other than the written ones you claim in 1. And why didn't he know muhammad couldn't read those verses?

1. These verses can be found in the Quran, God All-Mighty did know Muhammad (peace be upon him) could not read.

2. Because this is what God intended, God was full aware Muhammad (peace be upon him) could not read.Â Indeed, the Qur'an was revealed to a man who could neither read nor write so that it might be apparent to mankind that he could not have received it from the writings of man, but only from God All-Mighty.

10CC · Post by **10CC** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:06 am

HaLi8993 wrote: @ Keith

But if J. didn't give anything for M. to recite, what did he give him to read?
He did give him something to recite, the very first verses to be sent to him as revelation.

Not until he had told him THREE TIMES to read, what was it gabriel was telling him to READ?

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:05 am

@ 10CC

Not until he had told him THREE TIMES to read, what was it gabriel was telling him to READ?

The circumstance is as follows:

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was illiterate.Â It was the habit of Muhammad (peace be upon him) to frequently remove himself and spend many days secluded in the cave of "Hiraa" in the mountains of Makkah where he would pray to God according to the religion of Abraham (peace be upon him). After many years of this, and having reached the age of forty, the angel Gabriel suddenly appeared before him and ordered him to "Iqra!" (read, recite, repeat, proclaim). Muhammad (peace be upon him), in his terror thought he was being asked to read, so he said: "I am unlettered." The angel Gabriel again ordered him to "Iqra!" Muhammad (peace be upon him) again replied: "I am unlettered." The angel Gabriel now took a firm hold of him and commanded him "Iqraa in the name of Allah who created!". Now Muhammad (peace be upon him) began to understand that he was not being asked to read, but to recite, to repeat. He began to repeat after him, and Gabriel revealed to him the first verses of the Qur'an, those at the beginning of the chapter of Al-Alak(96):

"Read(Iqraa): In the name of your Lord who created, Created man from a clot. Read(Iqraa): And your Lord is the Most Bounteous, Who teaches by the pen, Teaches man that which he knew not."Â