Religion v Ethics

[Wootah]

It is said that religion is the opiate of the masses.

How does ethics avoid a similar attack?

[Neatras]

I feel like stepping in and pointing out that Cusick is effectively coming up with whatever line of reasoning allows him to generalize, demonize, and mock atheists as much as possible. The correct approach to learning about the characteristics and motives of people who do not share your beliefs is to ask questions. Something Cusick ought to do, but hasn't done. This indicates he will assume he is right regardless of counter-arguments. It is a really not good thing to do.

[JP Cusick]

Atheism is simply taking the wrong doing to the next lower level.

Those people who were compelled to use God in their wrong doing - can now do their wrongs without any reference to God.

Now they no longer have to pretend to be Theist.

So you are saying that theists who did this (do this) were/are really atheists pretending to be theists?

Not really saying that.

I am saying that there has always been people who do wrong and commit violence and they would misuse a connection to God or to religion to justify their wrong doing because religion dominated society.

Now the same sort of people who just do wrong can now claim to be Atheist instead of pretending to be Christians or other religion.

They were not Atheist nor Theist as they were (and still are) just brute beast.

An example is that after the civil rights movement 1954 – 1968, then people saw that the black people were using religion (Christianity and Islam) as the power behind their demand for civil rights, and so many white people gave up Christianity and became Atheist as their new power position.

By pretending to be Christians it gave them power, but when that power betrayed them then they dumped the religious pretense and jumped onto the racist bandwagon of evolution and Atheism.

It is not the "ism" that is wrong - it is the people who claim any such "ism" to power their evil intentions.

[Bust Nak]

I do not see the morally strong, and you certainly are not giving any example.

Take me for example then.

To toot your own horn is not a moral high ground.

No, but being more moral is the moral high ground.

What I see all around is the morally weak and morally bankrupt and I see Atheism adding fuel to the depravity of society.

Well there you go, theists are not more moral than atheists. Assuming atheism is in fact a bad influence on people, atheists are actually better people than theists: Atheists, who are supposedly disadvantaged, does just as well as theists.

I do concede that religion has failed, but the thing called God is still actively ongoing and that factor is not to be ignored.

But it can be ignore though, given that theists are not more moral than atheists.

[JP Cusick]

Take me for example then.

No, but being more moral is the moral high ground.

Well there you go, theists are not more moral than atheists. Assuming atheism is in fact a bad influence on people, atheists are actually better people than theists: Atheists, who are supposedly disadvantaged, does just as well as theists.

But it can be ignore though, given that theists are not more moral than atheists.

Well you just taught me something and I appreciate that.

Clearly morality is just not the ultimate criteria, because morality is just the basic action and the outward show, but it is not enough.

And morality can be subject to different cultures and difference of opinion or perspective, so morality is important but it is not the highest of high ground.

There needs to be more, as in another concept called "virtue" which is the inward side to morality which is the outward side.

We see it in politicians who give a perfect display of morality as they use it and brag about it to gain power and position, and so they come in sheep's clothing but inside they are a pack of ravenous wolves.

I say now "virtue" but I do not see that as enough either, because the person needs to be proactive, as like Jesus sacrificing His self for the benefit of those who hated Him.

I expect that we all know of so-called religious people who really do not believe in anything but their own depravity, and yet God and the Bible stands far above the hypocrites of this world.

For an Atheist they can have virtue and morality but it is not required nor even expected of them, so the Atheist is not being a hypocrite by being immoral or unethical or whatever depravity, because Atheism allows for the lowest of the low without contradiction.

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 64 by JP Cusick]

So tell me, who has a higher virtue: a) Someone who acts morally outwardly, because he inwardly feels it is the right thing to do; or b) someone who acts morally outwardly, because he knows God will not approve if he acts out how he wanted to act inwardly?

For an Atheist they can have virtue and morality but it is not required nor even expected of them, so the Atheist is not being a hypocrite by being immoral or unethical or whatever depravity, because Atheism allows for the lowest of the low without contradiction.

Exactly, and that says a lot given the basic action and the outward appearance of atheists and theists are not all that different.

[JP Cusick]

So tell me, who has a higher virtue: a) Someone who acts morally outwardly, because he inwardly feels it is the right thing to do; or b) someone who acts morally outwardly, because he knows God will not approve if he acts out how he wanted to act inwardly?

I do not know.

I would thereby judge them as equal.

Fortunately I am not the Judge in control.

When I first converted to a belief in the reality of God then I did many things just because God and the Bible said to do it, and later I would learn why it was the right or wrong thing to do.

I do not like the way of "feeling" as in feeling some thing is right or wrong because feelings can not be trusted, and instead we need to find realistic explanations as to why anything is right or wrong.

Exactly, and that says a lot given the basic action and the outward appearance of atheists and theists are not all that different.

That is true - but mostly just for Christians and Atheist as no difference.

I really see in today's society that there is not much difference in the actions of a Christian from an Atheist - with some few exceptions.

They both support American warmongering, they both waste time with sports and entertainment, and they both eat swine and garbage, support the evils of Capitalism, so the difference is often just superficial.

[paarsurrey1]

So tell me, who has a higher virtue: a) Someone who acts morally outwardly, because he inwardly feels it is the right thing to do; or b) someone who acts morally outwardly, because he knows God will not approve if he acts out how he wanted to act inwardly?

I do not know.

I would thereby judge them as equal.

Fortunately I am not the Judge in control.

When I first converted to a belief in the reality of God then I did many things just because God and the Bible said to do it, and later I would learn why it was the right or wrong thing to do.

I do not like the way of "feeling" as in feeling some thing is right or wrong because feelings can not be trusted, and instead we need to find realistic explanations as to why anything is right or wrong.

Exactly, and that says a lot given the basic action and the outward appearance of atheists and theists are not all that different.

That is true - but mostly just for Christians and Atheist as no difference.

I really see in today's society that there is not much difference in the actions of a Christian from an Atheist - with some few exceptions.

They both support American warmongering, they both waste time with sports and entertainment, and they both eat swine and garbage, support the evils of Capitalism, so the difference is often just superficial.

the difference is often just superficial

And so rightly said.
Regards

[help3434]

r to act unethically against those who are not believers in the same idea of GOD.
Granted, there might be some atheists who 'get past that barrier of having the God telling them right from wrong' but atheism isn't about that. Anti-theism might be about that, but that is one subset of atheism. What you are saying implies all atheists are atheists for that reason.
.

That is not what anti-theism is about. In fact a lot out spoken anti-theists are basically in agreement with Steven Weinberg and are anti-theists because they think religion influences people to be unethical who otherwise wouldn't without that influence.

[help3434]

An example is that after the civil rights movement 1954 – 1968, then people saw that the black people were using religion (Christianity and Islam) as the power behind their demand for civil rights, and so many white people gave up Christianity and became Atheist as their new power position.

A lot of white racists gave up the Democratic Party after the civil rights movement of the 60s but you are the only person I ever heard claim that a bunch of white people abandoned Christianity and theism because of the civil rights movement. Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

[JP Cusick]

A lot of white racists gave up the Democratic Party after the civil rights movement of the 60s but you are the only person I ever heard claim that a bunch of white people abandoned Christianity and theism because of the civil rights movement. Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

I think it is because I am one of the few repentant white people, so I confess our shared white sins and it makes me a traitor to the white cause.

So there is evidence if one really searched for the info, but it is not going to be reported in mainstream News or documentaries.

I was born in 1956 so I grew up in the transition times when whites still had Christian roots but it was changing over to Atheism, and we had race riots in every school at those times and open racial hostilities, but the Courts and the Federal government required that there be integration, and the black people were highly religious and they would seek friendship based on our common Christianity, and so white people started pulling away and Atheism became the new battle cry for whites, and especially the "evolution" which shows that whites are the highest evolved and blacks as the lowest evolved, see picture HERE.

And many racist did leave the Democratic Party - but many others stayed there in the Democratic Party too.