A Two-Part Question for JWs about Matthew 24:14

[Skeptical]

This question is primarily asked to JWs, but anyone with a Bible-based view may participate in this discussion. But my two-fold question is: According to Matthew 24:14:

14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations,+ and then the end will come.

a) What exactly was the good news of the Kingdom that was preached in the first century CE?
b) Since Jesus was referring to all the inhabited earth during the first century, what "end" was he referring to?

And the reason why I ask these questions is because I understand that JWs have a different interpretation of what the gospel or good news is compared to other Christians. Also, since the inhabited earth during the first century went beyond the Roman province of Judea and the city of Jerusalem, what concern would "the end" be for Christians living in other regions of the inhabited earth? (Colossians 1:23)

[Skeptical]

All societies decline.

The one you are in will be removed.

More threating posts. But once again, please don't respond to my questions.

[2timothy316]

All societies decline.

The one you are in will be removed.

More threating posts. But once again, please don't respond to my questions.

Jehovah doesn't threaten, He promises: Daniel 2:44 is going to happen and not because I said so.
You can ignore me in your settings but the Bible will still be there. I'm not the one you need to worry about 'responding to your questions'. I respond with the Bible. Clearly the Bible is your foe and in this forum is the highest authority. Perhaps you want to go some to another forum where you don't have compete against the Bible.

[Skeptical]

All societies decline.

The one you are in will be removed.

More threating posts. But once again, please don't respond to my questions.

Jehovah doesn't threaten, He promises:

LOL So, now you think you're Jehovah. LOL

Daniel 2:44 is going to happen and not because I said so.

I know that you don't want to here this, but:

In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. And the Lord delivered Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, along with some of the articles from the temple of God. These he carried off to the temple of his god in Babylonia and put in the treasure house of his god.

DANIEL 1:1-2
This didn’t happen. “The third year of the reign of Jehoiakim” is 606 B.C. Nebuchadnezzar attacked and sacked Jerusalem in 598 B.C. which is the eleventh year of Jehoiakim, a fact confirmed not only elsewhere in the Bible but in contemporary Babylonian records. Technically Jehoiakim was killed before the sack and his son, Jehoiakin (a.k.a. Jeconiah), reigned a few months still holding out, but this passage is vague enough to encompass such a train of events (in ancient literary parlance we would call that a standard compression of events, which deliberately doesn’t distract a reader with pedantic trivia). It’s the rest of it that makes no sense. Nebuchadnezzar didn’t even ascend the throne until 605 B.C. (although disagreements of only a year can be due to the use of different calendars or other minor causes of error). In that year, though, when Nebuchadnezzar threatened to besiege Jerusalem, Jehoiakim, then a vassal of Egypt, pledged allegiance to the Babylonians instead, and served as their vassal until 601, when he allied with the Egyptians again, provoking Nebuchadnezzar to finally make good on his threat, ending Judah as a kingdom in 598 (or 597, depending on calendar, etc.). To confuse all this is an impossible mistake for anyone contemporary to these events.

Daniel then erroneously has Belshazzar succeed Nebuchadnezzar as his son (Daniel 5; cf. Daniel 7:1 and 8:1). But Belshazzar was neither his successor nor his son; and abundant contemporary records show he was never King of Babylon, but only served occasionally as regent under his father—but even that was a decade or so after several other rulers of Babylon had come and gone. Belshazzar’s actual father, Nabonidus, took the throne six years and three kings—Amel Marduk, Neriglissar, and Labashi-Marduk—after Nebuchadnezzar. There is no possible way any contemporary of events could have gotten this so horribly wrong. Whoever wrote Daniel was bad at history, and somehow mistook Belshazzar as a king of Babylon (he wasn’t), the son of Nebuchadnezzar (he wasn’t), and as succeeding Nebuchadnezzar (he didn’t; not even as regent).

Daniel then invents a king who never existed: Darius the Mede. Daniel claims he “took over the kingdom” after Belshazzar was killed (Daniel 5:30-31). In fact the actual king of the Babylonians was not killed. The Persians (not the Medes) took over Nabonidus’s kingdom, and spared his life (the real fate of his son and sometimes-regent Belshazzar is not recorded). Daniel’s author was clearly quite confused by the political chronology of this period, mistaking the famous Darius the Great as the Persian king who freed the Jews, when in fact all records show—including other books of the Bible—that that was Cyrus the Great, who reigned several kings previous in succession (Darius succeeded only after Cyrus’s sons had their turn at the throne, first Chambyses and then Bardiya). Daniel even confused who fathered whom, getting the line of succession exactly backwards: Daniel says Darius was the son of Xerxes (Daniel 9:1); in fact Xerxes the Great was the son of Darius. Darius’s father was Hystaspes, a distant relative of Cyrus the Great.

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/18242

Also, here is something a bit shorter if you don't want to read all of that starting at the 1:03 mark:

You can ignore me in your settings but the Bible will still be there. I'm not the one you need to worry about 'responding to your questions'.

Once again, people have to worry or be in fear or have to be desperate or have to have an ultimatum of life or death hanging over their head like Adam and Eve did when it comes to the religion of the Bible. However, I can at least say that the Judeo-Christian religion is consistent.

I respond with the Bible. Clearly the Bible is your foe and in this forum is the highest authority.

No, 2timothy316. It's not my foe... it's just a book.

Perhaps you want to go some to another forum where you don't have compete against the Bible.

LOL You would like that wouldn't you... Me being out of your hair.

[JehovahsWitness]

Nebuchadnezzar attacked and sacked Jerusalem in 598 B.C.

#QUESTION: Why does the date given by Jehovah's Witnesses for the Fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians, differ from that given by most historians of 587?



Jehovah's Witnesses have not chosen the date arbitrarily, 607 is based on bible chronology which explicitly states the exile was for 70 years (See 2 Chronicles 36:21, 22, NIV). Since both the bible and secular historians agree that the Jewish exile was ended by 537 counting back from that date we arrive at that date of 607 BCE. We view it as reasonable to favor bible chronology over the available secular sources for the following reasons.

#1 The bible has often been vindicated as to its archelogical detail when the consensus had previously been against it, proving it has a stellar record in this regard.

#2 The bible account of the Fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians were written much closer to those upon which the later date was based (the Babyloniaca, for example was written about 281 BCE) and Ptolemy compliled his list of Babylonian kings some 600 years after the Neo-Babylonian period ended. The bible writer Jeremiah and Daniel on the other hand, were eye witnesses of the events.

#3 Historians who lived close to the time when Jerusalem was destroyed give mixed information about the Neo-Babylonian kings and while the consensus on Ptolemy's list is that it was generally reliable, it's proven omissions mean it cannot be legitimately viewed as a definite historical chronology. See below.

This did not prevent him from making his own additions and interpretations. - Scholar R. J. van der Spek, Studies in Ancient Near Eastern World View and Society, page 295 (Commenting on the accuracy of the Neo-Babylonian Priest Berossus, one source for the later date)

In the past Berossus has usually been viewed as a historian [yet] considered as such his performance must be pronounced inadequate. Even in its present fragmentary state the Babyloniaca contains a number of surprising errors of simple fact . . . In a historian such flaws would be damning, but then Berossus purpose was not historical. -- S. M. Burstein, The Babyloniaca of Berossus, page 8.

Regarding Ptolemy

[Ptolemy's canon was] an artificial scheme designed to provide astronomers with a consistent chronology and was “not to provide historians with a precise record of the accession and death of kings. -- Christopher Walker, (Historian at the British Museum)Mesopotamia and Iran in the Persian Period, pages 17-18.

It has long been known that the Canon is astronomically reliable, but this does not automatically mean that it is historically dependable. -- Leo Depuydt, Professor of Egyptology and Assyriology, Brown University

CONCLUSION "The Bible clearly states that there was an exile of 70 years. There is strong [biblical] evidence and most scholars agree that the Jewish exiles were back in their homeland by 537 B.C.E. Counting back from that year would place Jerusalem's destruction in 607 B.C.E. Though the classical historians and the canon of Ptolemy disagree with this date, valid questions can be raised about the accuracy of their writings." Watchtower October 1 p. 31



Detailed articles below
http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/
http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011736

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM, 1914 and ... THE GENTILE TIMES

[2timothy316]

All societies decline.

The one you are in will be removed.

More threating posts. But once again, please don't respond to my questions.

Jehovah doesn't threaten, He promises:

LOL So, now you think you're Jehovah. LOL

Daniel 2:44 is going to happen and not because I said so.

I know that you don't want to here this, but:

“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever." Dan 2:44

You're commenting on a totally different subject. I thought you didn't like straw man comments, yet you made one about the destruction of Jerusalem. I wasn't even talking about Jerusalem. Dan 2:44 is about bringing an end to all current world governments. This includes the Earthly government that is over you now. It also includes the Earthly government that is over me too.

I see JW responded to you Jerusalem straw man. So, have fun with that.

[Skeptical]

Nebuchadnezzar attacked and sacked Jerusalem in 598 B.C.

#QUESTION: Why does the date given by Jehovah's Witnesses for the Fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians, differ from that given by most historians of 587?



Jehovah's Witnesses have not chosen the date arbitrarily, 607 is based on bible chronology which explicitly states the exile was for 70 years (See 2 Chronicles 36:21, 22, NIV). Since both the bible and secular historians agree that the Jewish exile was ended by 537 counting back from that date we arrive at that date of 607 BCE. We view it as reasonable to favor bible chronology over the available secular sources for the following reasons.

#1 The bible has often been vindicated as to its archelogical detail when the consensus had previously been against it, proving it has a stellar record in this regard.

#2 The bible account of the Fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians were written much closer to those upon which the later date was based (the Babyloniaca, for example was written about 281 BCE) and Ptolemy compliled his list of Babylonian kings some 600 years after the Neo-Babylonian period ended. The bible writer Jeremiah and Daniel on the other hand, were eye witnesses of the events.

#3 Historians who lived close to the time when Jerusalem was destroyed give mixed information about the Neo-Babylonian kings and while the consensus on Ptolemy's list is that it was generally reliable, it's proven omissions mean it cannot be legitimately viewed as a definite historical chronology. See below.

This did not prevent him from making his own additions and interpretations. - Scholar R. J. van der Spek, Studies in Ancient Near Eastern World View and Society, page 295 (Commenting on the accuracy of the Neo-Babylonian Priest Berossus, one source for the later date)

In the past Berossus has usually been viewed as a historian [yet] considered as such his performance must be pronounced inadequate. Even in its present fragmentary state the Babyloniaca contains a number of surprising errors of simple fact . . . In a historian such flaws would be damning, but then Berossus purpose was not historical. -- S. M. Burstein, The Babyloniaca of Berossus, page 8.

Regarding Ptolemy

[Ptolemy's canon was] an artificial scheme designed to provide astronomers with a consistent chronology and was “not to provide historians with a precise record of the accession and death of kings. -- Christopher Walker, (Historian at the British Museum)Mesopotamia and Iran in the Persian Period, pages 17-18.

It has long been known that the Canon is astronomically reliable, but this does not automatically mean that it is historically dependable. -- Leo Depuydt, Professor of Egyptology and Assyriology, Brown University

CONCLUSION "The Bible clearly states that there was an exile of 70 years. There is strong [biblical] evidence and most scholars agree that the Jewish exiles were back in their homeland by 537 B.C.E. Counting back from that year would place Jerusalem's destruction in 607 B.C.E. Though the classical historians and the canon of Ptolemy disagree with this date, valid questions can be raised about the accuracy of their writings." Watchtower October 1 p. 31

Here you go, JW. Short and sweet:





Also, based on this next 4-year-old video, it appears that Jehovah's Witnesses themselves sound as if they're no longer sure about the year 1914. (Noted is that this video host talks very slow, therefore, the video starts at the 3:26 mark.)

[Skeptical]

All societies decline.

The one you are in will be removed.

More threating posts. But once again, please don't respond to my questions.

Jehovah doesn't threaten, He promises:

LOL So, now you think you're Jehovah. LOL

Daniel 2:44 is going to happen and not because I said so.

I know that you don't want to here this, but:

“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever." Dan 2:44

You're commenting on a totally different subject. I thought you didn't like straw man comments, yet you made one about the destruction of Jerusalem. I wasn't even talking about Jerusalem. Dan 2:44 is about bringing an end to all current world governments. This includes the Earthly government that is over you now. It also includes the Earthly government that is over me too.

I see JW responded to you Jerusalem straw man. So, have fun with that.

lol Well, apparently, you've never heard of the scripture at Luke 16:10 that says: "Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much."

https://biblehub.com/luke/16-10.htm

Or "A little leaven leavens the whole lump" at Galatians 5:9 and 1 Corinthians 5:6.

https://biblehub.com/galatians/5-9.htm

https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/5-6.htm

And as far as Daniel 2:44 is concerned:

I. The Kingdom

JWs teach: that the Kingdom of God was established in heaven in 1914.

The Bible teaches: The Kingdom of God is the church, which was established when Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to the apostles a few days after He ascended back to heaven.

PROOF:
Daniel 2:44—Read the entire chapter to see that God tells of four world empires. First was Babylon, then history tells us of three others—the Medo-Persian Empire, the Grecian Empire, and the Roman Empire. This verse tells us that God will set up His eternal kingdom during the days of the kings of the fourth empire—the Roman kings. This was when Jesus came and set up the kingdom.

Mark 9:1—“And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." Thus, Jesus prophesied that the kingdom would come within the lifetime of those people to whom He spoke. Note also: the kingdom was to come “with power.”

Acts 1:8—***“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you.” ***The power came with the Holy Ghost, and the Kingdom came with power. Therefore when Jesus sent the Holy Ghost on the apostles (Acts 2), the Kingdom began.

Colossians 1:13—“Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son." Note: Paul used the past tense. The kingdom was already in existence and all Christians were in it. The kingdom is the church.

https://knowyourbible.co.za/articles/mi ... witnesses/

And which is why I say that JW beliefs are based upon their interpretation.

[JehovahsWitness]

Here you go, JW. Short and sweet:

This is a debate forum not a video sharing platform ; if you have something to say counterargue the points I made feel free to do so in your own words if you can. Academic references appreciated.



JW

[2timothy316]

All societies decline.

The one you are in will be removed.

More threating posts. But once again, please don't respond to my questions.

Jehovah doesn't threaten, He promises:

LOL So, now you think you're Jehovah. LOL

Daniel 2:44 is going to happen and not because I said so.

I know that you don't want to here this, but:

“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever." Dan 2:44

You're commenting on a totally different subject. I thought you didn't like straw man comments, yet you made one about the destruction of Jerusalem. I wasn't even talking about Jerusalem. Dan 2:44 is about bringing an end to all current world governments. This includes the Earthly government that is over you now. It also includes the Earthly government that is over me too.

I see JW responded to you Jerusalem straw man. So, have fun with that.

lol Well, apparently, you've never heard of the scripture at Luke 16:10 that says: "Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much."

https://biblehub.com/luke/16-10.htm

Or "A little leaven leavens the whole lump" at Galatians 5:9 and 1 Corinthians 5:6.

https://biblehub.com/galatians/5-9.htm

https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/5-6.htm

I'm quite familiar with all of those scriptures. Are you familiar with the correct application of those scriptures? Your using them here is odd to those that study the Bible on a daily basis and don't just search the Bible for eisegesis.

And as far as Daniel 2:44 is concerned:

I. The Kingdom

JWs teach: that the Kingdom of God was established in heaven in 1914.

The Bible teaches: The Kingdom of God is the church, which was established when Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to the apostles a few days after He ascended back to heaven.

PROOF:
Daniel 2:44—Read the entire chapter to see that God tells of four world empires. First was Babylon, then history tells us of three others—the Medo-Persian Empire, the Grecian Empire, and the Roman Empire. This verse tells us that God will set up His eternal kingdom during the days of the kings of the fourth empire—the Roman kings. This was when Jesus came and set up the kingdom.

Mark 9:1—“And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." Thus, Jesus prophesied that the kingdom would come within the lifetime of those people to whom He spoke. Note also: the kingdom was to come “with power.”

Acts 1:8—***“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you.” ***The power came with the Holy Ghost, and the Kingdom came with power. Therefore when Jesus sent the Holy Ghost on the apostles (Acts 2), the Kingdom began.

Colossians 1:13—“Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son." Note: Paul used the past tense. The kingdom was already in existence and all Christians were in it. The kingdom is the church.

https://knowyourbible.co.za/articles/mi ... witnesses/

And which is why I say that JW beliefs are based upon their interpretation.

You're missing one crucial part of the scripture, speaking of God's Kingdom, "it alone will stand forever." This has not happened. There is no singular government that has stood alone since then.
Revelation 2:26,27 and 19:15 which are talking about the same event, hasn't happened yet either. Jehovah's Witnesses let the scripture interpret scripture.

Now watch as the Bible interprets Mark9:1, all you have to do is read the next verses 2 through 8. Those that "stand here" they saw a glimpse of the kingdom to come in the way of a vision right then and there. Note the scripture says, they would see the kingdom, not be in it. See, these is where eisegesis backfires on people. They zoom in on one scripture to proof text what they say but do not include the verse's context that tells a person what the verse is actually talking about.

[boatsnguitars]

All societies decline.

The one you are in will be removed.

All gods die, too.