Is Secularism a threat to Christianity?

[McCulloch]

Secularism, Islam and the Gay Pride movement seem very threatening to the peace and safety of Christians in today's world.

You can't understand that?

Is Secularism a threat to Christianity? The USA, the world's first constitutionally secular nation, is where Christianity abounds. How is it that secularism, the legal separation of religion and government, threatens the peace and safety of Christians?

[99percentatheism]

Danmark

Well it seems that SOS has answered the OP with a resounding NO.
Thread closed

That is true. I didn't realize that. According to him Jesus will return and destroy secular society, so it doesn't seem like much of a threat.

Finally proving that the Conservative Evangelical positions on scripture are the only ones that can be called "correct."

But what about all the Christians ( fellow -citizens of society ) that are being bullied, bashed and harmed by secularism and its more violent practioners before the Second Coming?

Are all secularists happy about that opportunity to hurt Christians while the opportunity still exists?

This is a fascinating turn of events here.

What is fascinating about your claim?

Reality.

It's hardly fascinating to find that when one takes an extremist position he is in the minority.

Orthodox. Extemist. Potatoe poTAHto.

It's predictable. Who are these masses of secularists who are 'hurting Christians?

Academics. my daughter wasn't in High School two-years before a school employee (teacher) told her how stupid the Bible was and how "insane" Christians are. I had him in the Principal's office three days later. He was not very impressive when confronted.

On this forum we have Christians claiming alternately that ours is a Christian nation, a Christian culture and the way should be made broad and wide for it.

Reality doesn't back that up. The ills done by American expensionism is purely secular.

Many Christians have argued long and hard and inaccurately that the founding fathers were Christian despite the fact they were mainly deist.

"Mainly deist?" Please prove that.

Christianity has largely been a bullying faith through most of its history, just like Islam.

Back that up with facts please.

Still today, how many successful politicians do we have on the national stage who are self proclaimed Christians compared to self proclaimed atheists, irreligious, or non theist?

I don't know. But I do know politicians want to pass themselves off as some to be trusted. What does that say about atheism and the irreligious? Not much good huh?

Political voting power has always been at the mercy of the Christian vote.

When? I don't think you can back that up with evidence.

This is so obviously true that we even suffered from the extreme version of it when prohibition was passed.

And how many innocent people have been slaughtered by "drunks?"

It is true that many Christians and non Christians have wised up the last decade or two and pushed back against many Christian extremist beliefs as advocated by a hard core fundamentalism.

Please present evidence for that assertion. What it looks like, is that the majority have finally come out with their secularism declared. And how many people are now in mental institutions, on psychotropic meds and in prisons? I believe that suicides are at at an all time high right?

If your version of Christianity requires you to ever narrow who qualifies, and then you disparage everyone else as 'secularists,' how do you have the chutzpah to claim you are the one being bullied?

The very term "seperation of Church and State" is found NO WHERE in the Constitution. It has been developed over a very short time frame in American history and is now quite threatening to Christianity. The interactions between the Danbury Baptist Church and Thomas Jefferson have do not support the wat SOC&S has been developed.

By the way, our schools were once IN Churches. Look it up.

Is Secularism a threat to Christianity? Obviously.

[99percentatheism]

Well it seems that SOS has answered the OP with a resounding NO.
Thread closed

That is true. I didn't realize that. According to him Jesus will return and destroy secular society, so it doesn't seem like much of a threat.

Finally proving that the Conservative Evangelical positions on scripture are the only ones that can be called "correct."

But what about all the Christians ( fellow -citizens of society ) that are being bullied, bashed and harmed by secularism and its more violent practioners before the Second Coming?

Are all secularists happy about that opportunity to hurt Christians while the opportunity still exists?

This is a fascinating turn of events here.

Hey sweety, don't worry yourself. If you are a follower of SOS then you win the game in a few years anyway. What's all the anger for?
Don't you believe that armageddon is just around the corner?
"cause that apparently is what the bible tells you to believe.

Hey Hun, Armageddon means: Hill in Megiddo. It's a real place.

I live in the USA. Megiddo is no where near around the corner.

Duh!

[Danmark]

Danmark

Academics. my daughter wasn't in High School two-years before a school employee (teacher) told her how stupid the Bible was and how "insane" Christians are. I had him in the Principal's office three days later. He was not very impressive when confronted.
....

As you should have gathered by now I don't do the breaking posts into tiny paragraphs thing.

I want to respond to this by saying the teacher should have been fired and probably would have been if what you say was proved and happened in a public school. There is no way a teacher should conduct her/himself that way. Had I been involved as a lawyer in the matter I would have quite proudly announced the teacher and school board that as a non Christian, we do not tolerate that kind of bullying from teachers. I'd be interested in knowing more of the context of the incident.

[Danmark]

Danmark

Many Christians have argued long and hard and inaccurately that the founding fathers were Christian despite the fact they were mainly deist.

"Mainly deist?" Please prove that.

Sorry 99, I thought that was common knowledge:

Deism in the United States

Thomas Paine
In the United States, Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Thomas Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.
Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include James Madison, possibly Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen,[49] and Thomas Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).
A major contributor was Elihu Palmer (1764"1806), who wrote the "Bible" of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York".
In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[50][51] Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington.[52][53][54]
Benjamin Franklin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist. My arguments perverted some others, particularly Collins and Ralph; but each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting Keith's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho' it might be true, was not very useful."[55][56] Franklin also wrote that "the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[57] He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that "the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men."[58]
For his part, Thomas Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian. In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom, characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a "theistic rationalist", because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[59][60] Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, where he wrote, "I tremble" at the thought that "God is just," and he warned of eventual "supernatural influence" to abolish the scourge of slavery.[61][62]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

[Goat]

Danmark

Academics. my daughter wasn't in High School two-years before a school employee (teacher) told her how stupid the Bible was and how "insane" Christians are. I had him in the Principal's office three days later. He was not very impressive when confronted.
....

As you should have gathered by now I don't do the breaking posts into tiny paragraphs thing.

I want to respond to this by saying the teacher should have been fired and probably would have been if what you say was proved and happened in a public school. There is no way a teacher should conduct her/himself that way. Had I been involved as a lawyer in the matter I would have quite proudly announced the teacher and school board that as a non Christian, we do not tolerate that kind of bullying from teachers. I'd be interested in knowing more of the context of the incident.

I have often found that many people who make wild claims about being persecuted take things drastically out of context. Many of the 'you are persecuting christians' lawsuits get tossed because, frankly, their claims just don't hold up.

[Danmark]

Danmark....
The very term "seperation [sic] of Church and State" is found NO WHERE in the Constitution. It has been developed over a very short time frame in American history and is now quite threatening to Christianity. The interactions between the Danbury Baptist Church and Thomas Jefferson have do not support the wat SOC&S has been developed.

This is just plain misleading bunk perpetrated by ignorant non lawyers who are neither scholars of the Constitution nor of history.

Of course your misspelling is not found in the Constitution; neither is 'separation' in this context. Yes the phrase comes from Jefferson in a letter he wrote and shows his thinking on the phrase that IS in the Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . . ."

In English, the exact term [separation of church and state] is an offshoot of the phrase, "wall of separation between church and state", as written in Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802. In that letter, referencing the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, Jefferson writes: "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." Jefferson reflected his frequent speaking theme that the government is not to interfere with religion and vice versa.
_ wikipedia
Jefferson wrote his letter only 11 years after the 1st Amendment was adopted. It is interesting to note that Jefferson was Madison's mentor in these matters.

[Danmark]

Danmark

Academics. my daughter wasn't in High School two-years before a school employee (teacher) told her how stupid the Bible was and how "insane" Christians are. I had him in the Principal's office three days later. He was not very impressive when confronted.
....

As you should have gathered by now I don't do the breaking posts into tiny paragraphs thing.

I want to respond to this by saying the teacher should have been fired and probably would have been if what you say was proved and happened in a public school. There is no way a teacher should conduct her/himself that way. Had I been involved as a lawyer in the matter I would have quite proudly announced the teacher and school board that as a non Christian, we do not tolerate that kind of bullying from teachers. I'd be interested in knowing more of the context of the incident.

I have often found that many people who make wild claims about being persecuted take things drastically out of context. Many of the 'you are persecuting christians' lawsuits get tossed because, frankly, their claims just don't hold up.

Exactly. I doubt seriously that we will ever receive from 99 any authoritative, documented evidence of those alleged remarks.

[Danmark]

Danmark

Christianity has largely been a bullying faith through most of its history, just like Islam.

Back that up with facts please.

It is getting a bit tiresome, backing up obviously true statements that few would question, but:

Are you seriously unaware of the history of religion, the crusades, the inquisition, the burning of witches, the imprisonment of Galileo and the intimidation of other scientists and free thinkers?

You yourself want to misinterpret the Constitution and declare that because the exact phrase, "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution that no such concept exists. You apparently want to go back to the time when public schools were held in Christian churches.

Do you really want to be at the mercy of whatever religion is most popular and have them run the government? Do you want the watered down, 'secular' mainline 'Christian' churches and their minions teaching your daughter THEIR version of 'Christianity' in the public schools?

Yes, whenever any religion is powerful enough to align itself with the State, it becomes a bully and has actually killed and tortured people for having the 'wrong thoughts.' Do I really have to document this history for you?

As recently as my own childhood in the United States I went to a public elementary school where EVERYone was a 'Christian' or they kept their mouths shut. Atheists were thought to be evil and were shunned. There was even prejudice against Roman Catholics. And the two Jewish kids in the school, well, no one knew they were Jews until years later.

The Christian culture in this country has been so pervasive that it has seemed like THE culture. Until 30 or so years ago, 'Merry Christmas!' was the only thing you heard during the holiday season. Now some Christians are crying because someone has the temerity to say "Happy Holidays!"

The majority is generally oblivious to its inherent bullying and in denial about its intentional acts of discrimination and violence against religious and secular minorities.

[99percentatheism]

Danmark

Danmark

Many Christians have argued long and hard and inaccurately that the founding fathers were Christian despite the fact they were mainly deist.

"Mainly deist?" Please prove that.

Sorry 99, I thought that was common knowledge:

Common knowledge may be a thing of the past.

Paine knew the threat of secularism towards him. He was imprisoned in France during the raging Atheist-Deist violence of the French Revolution.

But let's see what you got to offer. And I'd say that Jonathan Locke had immense influence on the formation of The United States of America. And Locke was no friend of atheism.

Deism in the United States

Thomas Paine
In the United States, Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Thomas Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

That's more propaganda than reality. The USA was very religious as a country for something like 185-years. And certainly through the years of Paine and Jefferson.

But what else to be expected from a wikipedia piece.

Go on:

American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.

Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include James Madison, possibly Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen,[49] and Thomas Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).
A major contributor was Elihu Palmer (1764"1806), who wrote the "Bible" of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York".
In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[50][51] Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington.[52][53][54]
Benjamin Franklin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist. My arguments perverted some others, particularly Collins and Ralph; but each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting Keith's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho' it might be true, was not very useful."[55][56] Franklin also wrote that "the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[57] He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that "the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men."[58]
For his part, Thomas Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian. In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom, characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a "theistic rationalist", because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[59][60] Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, where he wrote, "I tremble" at the thought that "God is just," and he warned of eventual "supernatural influence" to abolish the scourge of slavery.[61][62]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

Wikipedia?

Here's some other info: http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_F ... igion.html

Religious Affiliation of the Delegates to the
Constitutional Convention of 1787, including the
Signers of the Constitution of the United States of America
There were 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention of 1787 at which the U.S. Constitution was drafted and signed. All participated in the proceedings which resulted in the Constitution, but only 39 of these delegates were actually signers of the document.
From: Robert G. Ferris (editor), Signers of the Constitution: Historic Places Commemorating the Signing of the Constitution, published by the United States Department of the Interior, National Park Service: Washington, D.C. (revised edition 1976), page 138:

Most of the [signers of the Constitution] married and fathered children. Sherman sired the largest family, numbering 15 by two wives... Three (Baldwin, Gilman, and Jenifer) were lifetime bachelors. In terms of religious affiliation, the men mirrored the overwhelmingly Protestant character of American religious life at the time and were members of various denominations. Only two, Carroll and Fitzsimons, were Roman Catholics.
Religious Affiliation # of
delegates % of
delegates
Episcopalian/Anglican 31 56.4%
Presbyterian 16 29.1%
Congregationalist 8 14.5%
Quaker 3 5.5%
Catholic 2 3.6%
Methodist 2 3.6%
Lutheran 2 3.6%
Dutch Reformed 2 3.6%
TOTAL 55 100%

Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
Daniel Carroll Maryland Catholic
Thomas Fitzsimons Pennsylvania Catholic
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
Nathaniel Gorham Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Langdon New Hampshire Congregationalist
Nicholas Gilman New Hampshire Congregationalist
Abraham Baldwin Georgia Congregationalist; Episcopalian
William Samuel Johnson Connecticut Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Madison Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer Maryland Episcopalian
David Brearly New Jersey Episcopalian
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Sr. North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Gouverneur Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Pierce Butler South Carolina Episcopalian
George Washington Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
William Blount North Carolina Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyteran
Rufus King Massachusetts Episcopalian; Congregationalist
Jacob Broom Delaware Lutheran
William Few Georgia Methodist
Richard Bassett Delaware Methodist
Gunning Bedford Jr. Delaware Presbyterian
James McHenry Maryland Presbyterian
William Livingston New Jersey Presbyterian
William Paterson New Jersey Presbyterian
Hugh Williamson North Carolina Presbyterian
Jared Ingersoll Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Alexander Hamilton New York Huguenot; Presbyterian; Episcopalian
Jonathan Dayton New Jersey Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Blair Virginia Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Dickinson Delaware Quaker; Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker; Episcopalian
Thomas Mifflin Pennsylvania Quaker; Lutheran


Name of Non-Signing Delegate State Religious Affiliation
Oliver Ellsworth Connecticut Congregationalist
Caleb Strong Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Lansing, Jr. New York Dutch Reformed
Robert Yates New York Dutch Reformed
William Houstoun Georgia Episcopalian
William Leigh Pierce Georgia Episcopalian
Luther Martin Maryland Episcopalian
John F. Mercer Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
George Mason Virginia Episcopalian
Edmund J. Randolph Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
James McClurg Virginia Presbyterian
William C. Houston New Jersey Presbyterian
William R. Davie North Carolina Presbyterian
Alexander Martin

Mmm hmm:

The three major foundational documents of the United States of America are the Declaration of Independence (July 1776), the Articles of Confederation (drafted 1777, ratified 1781) and the Constitution of the United States of America (1789). There are a total of 143 signatures on these documents, representing 118 different signers. (Some individuals signed more than one document.)

There were 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence. There were 48 signers of the Articles of Confederation. All 55 delegates who participated in the Constitutional Convention of 1787 are regarded as Founding Fathers, in fact, they are often regarded as the Founding Fathers because it is this group that actually debated, drafted and signed the U.S. Constitution, which is the basis for the country's political and legal system. Only 39 delegates actually signed the document, however, meaning there were 16 non-signing delegates - individuals who were Constitutional Convention delegates but were not signers of the Constitution.

There were 95 Senators and Representatives in the First Federal Congress. If one combines the total number of signatures on the Declaration, the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution with the non-signing Constitutional Convention delegates, and then adds to that sum the number of congressmen in the First Federal Congress, one obtains a total of 238 "slots" or "positions" in these groups which one can classify as "Founding Fathers" of the United States. Because 40 individuals had multiple roles (they signed multiple documents and/or also served in the First Federal Congress), there are 204 unique individuals in this group of "Founding Fathers." These are the people who did one or more of the following:

- signed the Declaration of Independence
- signed the Articles of Confederation
- attended the Constitutional Convention of 1787
- signed the Constitution of the United States of America
- served as Senators in the First Federal Congress (1789-1791)
- served as U.S. Representatives in the First Federal Congress

The religious affiliations of these individuals are summarized below. Obviously this is a very restrictive set of names, and does not include everyone who could be considered an "American Founding Father." But most of the major figures that people generally think of in this context are included using these criteria, including George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, John Hancock, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and more.

Religious Affiliation
of U.S. Founding Fathers # of
Founding
Fathers % of
Founding
Fathers
Episcopalian/Anglican 88 54.7%
Presbyterian 30 18.6%
Congregationalist 27 16.8%
Quaker 7 4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed 6 3.7%
Lutheran 5 3.1%
Catholic 3 1.9%
Huguenot 3 1.9%
Unitarian 3 1.9%
Methodist 2 1.2%
Calvinist 1 0.6%
TOTAL 204

[99percentatheism]

Danmark

Danmark

Christianity has largely been a bullying faith through most of its history, just like Islam.

Back that up with facts please.

It is getting a bit tiresome, backing up obviously true statements that few would question,

Obviously they are not obvious.

but:

Are you seriously unaware of the history of religion, the crusades, the inquisition, the burning of witches, the imprisonment of Galileo and the intimidation of other scientists and free thinkers?

Hmm, you seem to be leaving out the millions upon millions slaughtered by pagans and atheists during the same timeframe "Christians" existed.

From the Romans, Huns and Vikings on to the uncountable atrocities of Atheist regimes . . . I'd say" Let's weigh worldviews by the scales of real history shall we?

Oh yeah, and the French revolution run by the Enlightement, was a salughterhouse that still reverberates to this day.

And of course our incredibly violent secular society in the USA is one more galringly obvious fact to dread.

You yourself want to misinterpret the Constitution and declare that because the exact phrase, "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution that no such concept exists. You apparently want to go back to the time when public schools were held in Christian churches.

Hmm, STD's abortions, Suicide rates of our teens, Gangs . . . Hmm, let me see, hmm, choice, choice, choice?

Do you really want to be at the mercy of whatever religion is most popular and have them run the government?

No I do not. Nor do I want the godless governments to set up goulags in America.

Do you want the watered down, 'secular' mainline 'Christian' churches and their minions teaching your daughter THEIR version of 'Christianity' in the public schools?

No. I do not want her to get pregnant, STD's or kill herself.

Yes, whenever any religion is powerful enough to align itself with the State, it becomes a bully and has actually killed and tortured people for having the 'wrong thoughts.' Do I really have to document this history for you?

You must not have interacted with me very often.

As recently as my own childhood in the United States I went to a public elementary school where EVERYone was a 'Christian' or they kept their mouths shut.

Not me. I was a most vocal atheist. No one bothere me about it at all. probably because I didn't vocalize any ill-will towards the little Christians in my schools.

Atheists were thought to be evil and were shunned.

Seeing what they do when they gain power in countries, that is a very healthy fear.

There was even prejudice against Roman Catholics. And the two Jewish kids in the school, well, no one knew they were Jews until years later.

ALL Christians were once Jews. Well, OK almost all.

The Christian culture in this country has been so pervasive that it has seemed like THE culture. Until 30 or so years ago, 'Merry Christmas!' was the only thing you heard during the holiday season. Now some Christians are crying because someone has the temerity to say "Happy Holidays!"

Happy Holidays is dug into the Christian psyche like a ounch to the gut on the playground. Do you really think I am that ignorant of what's going on? I used to live as a atheist.

The majority is generally oblivious to its inherent bullying and in denial about its intentional acts of discrimination and violence against religious and secular minorities.

That's simply ridiculous. How many Atheists proclaim that they were once "Christians.?" I'd say, if you want to see religious bullies that not only just beat you up but slaughter you, look to Mohammad's rendition of it. STILL after 1400-years. With all of the Atheists, liberals and progressives coming from the ranks of the Churches, I'd say that Christianity was the most open minded, peaceful and free thinking worldview of all time.

Thanks for the opportunity to dialogue. It was reality that had me choose Christ.