Christians: why do you think Jews don’t accept the Christian Testament?

[Avoice]

Why do you think Jews reject the teachings of the church?

If you could pick one passage to convince them to believe Jesus is their anointed one (messiah) what would it be?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #58]

Then I accept your forfeit of this debate. If you can't accept the rules then your argument was a loss before you started. Have a good day.

My argument is that you don't know how Moses worshipped and I stand by it. There is nothing to forfeit as I'm not challenging Biblical authority, but a claim made by you that is being masqueraded as challenging Biblical authority.

Clearly you don't know that the way the Jews worship today is nothing like the way Moses did.

(For anyone confused, see the bolding above)

I challenge you to show that you know how Moses, who may not have even existed, worshipped.

(For anyone confused, my challenge to 2timothy316 was for them to show that they know that Moses worshipped differently compared to the Jews of today).

That you hide behind moderating to avoid being challenged says a lot!
I have learned so much! Especially about how Moses worshipped compared to the Jews of today. If only there was a person we could ask that claims to have said knowledge.

It just takes knowledge of the whole Bible to see that in Moses' day they worshipped differently. You apparently aren't familiar with the whole canon. The people back then had to worship the way Jehovah laid it out for them, directly. They were forever bucking the traces. Finally, after centuries, all their worship transferred to pagan idols and they left the rules of worship completely. Jesus denounced them for their unfaithful ways. (Matthew 23)

[Clownboat]

It just takes knowledge of the whole Bible to see that in Moses' day they worshipped differently.

It would only take knowledge of the parts of the Bible that described how Moses worshipped to then be compared to the Jews of today and how they worship.
Surely you understand that not having much knowledge about the Song of Solomon for example would have nothing to do with knowing how Moses worshipped.

You apparently aren't familiar with the whole canon.

So therefore I cannot be shown that Moses worshipped differently compared to the Jews of today? That doesn't follow even if it was true.

The people back then had to worship the way Jehovah laid it out for them, directly.

Where was this laid out? Perhaps I'm not familiar with it? 2timothy316 had zero interest in showing that their claim was true and instead pretended that I was ignoring Bible passages even though they were not provided to be ignored.

They seem to me to have worshipped God at specific holy places, through the use of definite holy objects (altars, pillars, etc.), with the help and leadership of certain holy men (prophets), in definite holy ways (through sacrifice, and ritual), and at fixed holy days or periods (festivals, sabbaths, etc.). You know, much like the Jews of today, which puts in to question, NOT BIBLICAL AUTHORITY, but a claim made by a poster here that the worship was different.

Who knows, perhaps 2timothy316 meant the early Israelites that were polytheistic and worshipped Yahweh god alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah and Baal. If that is the case, I would agree with the claim of it being different.

[Wootah]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #67]

As you can imagine most non-JWs on this forum don't see it that way.

This is due to tradition. JWs have learned by constant Bible study that just sticking with what is a traditional teaching isn't always Biblically sound and what is not following His Word the Bible should be dropped. Even if we had believed some teaching all our lives and our parents believed something all their lives. This is not a reason to keep believing in it if we find is not Biblically sound. Tradition is a trap and it has many in its bite.

I can only assure you that I think you are stuck in your traditions as well. Logs in eyes is a problem for all of us.

For me if the Bible was a work of fiction everyone would see Jesus is God. It is that plain as day in the basic reading.

Only tradition is preventing people from seeing that.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #67]

As you can imagine most non-JWs on this forum don't see it that way.

This is due to tradition. JWs have learned by constant Bible study that just sticking with what is a traditional teaching isn't always Biblically sound and what is not following His Word the Bible should be dropped. Even if we had believed some teaching all our lives and our parents believed something all their lives. This is not a reason to keep believing in it if we find is not Biblically sound. Tradition is a trap and it has many in its bite.

I can only assure you that I think you are stuck in your traditions as well. Logs in eyes is a problem for all of us.

For me if the Bible was a work of fiction everyone would see Jesus is God. It is that plain as day in the basic reading.

Only tradition is preventing people from seeing that.

That Jesus "is God" is NOT "as plain as day." Read the whole of the Gospel of John and you can see that Jesus is subordinate to God. John 1:1 has been proven to be erroneous in its "the Word was God" thing. The whole rest of the Gospel shows that Jesus always relied on Jehovah to teach him and anoint him and send him to his assignment on Earth. He actually said, "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) Paul further brings that to our attention when he wrote at I Corinthians 11:3 that Jesus had God as his head, meaning he was submissive to the Father, God, and this was after he returned to heaven.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #67]

As you can imagine most non-JWs on this forum don't see it that way.

This is due to tradition. JWs have learned by constant Bible study that just sticking with what is a traditional teaching isn't always Biblically sound and what is not following His Word the Bible should be dropped. Even if we had believed some teaching all our lives and our parents believed something all their lives. This is not a reason to keep believing in it if we find is not Biblically sound. Tradition is a trap and it has many in its bite.

I can only assure you that I think you are stuck in your traditions as well. Logs in eyes is a problem for all of us.

For me if the Bible was a work of fiction everyone would see Jesus is God. It is that plain as day in the basic reading.

Only tradition is preventing people from seeing that.

Nope. You assume wrong. I am willing to change my beliefs at anytime with the enough evidence. I don't even believe the same things I did 10 years ago. I've even changed them in the past 2 years. People steeped in traditions don't change no matter what they see or read in the Bible. The tradition trumps everything. Until there is a break. That is when people lose their minds and go nuts. When the tradition they have believed their whole life comes crashing down you know what many become? Atheists.

The trinity is definitely a tradition and those that want to keep that tradition I watch as they will not accept MANY scriptures that do not support the trinity. I can pick any of the many threads on this very forum on the trinity and see many people never accept those scriptures. They will not let go of the 3rd century tradition.

[Wootah]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #75]

OK. Well keep looking into and praying about it.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #75]

OK. Well keep looking into and praying about it.

Looked into it and prayed to Jehovah (not Jesus) for decades and still pray to Jehovah about. It's why I'm convinced there is no trinity. My God is the same God of Abraham and Moses. My God is Jesus' God, the one Jesus cried out to while dying. “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46) That God is the one spoken of at Psalms 83:18. I have no tradition, just what my studies in what the Bible tells me. I believe what I believe not just because of what I was taught when I was young. Not because of what my parents believed. Not because of what my church threatens me to believe under pain of eternal fire or any other punishment. These things are traps for the mind and heart.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #75]

OK. Well keep looking into and praying about it.

Looked into it and prayed to Jehovah (not Jesus) for decades and still pray to Jehovah about. It's why I'm convinced there is no trinity. My God is the same God of Abraham and Moses. My God is Jesus' God, the one Jesus cried out to while dying. “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46) That God is the one spoken of at Psalms 83:18. I have no tradition, just what my studies in what the Bible tells me. I believe what I believe not just because of what I was taught when I was young. Not because of what my parents believed. Not because of what my church threatens me to believe under pain of eternal fire or any other punishment. These things are traps for the mind and heart.

Yes, Jesus spoke plainly that he was God's Son and not God.
"Do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, 'You blaspheme,' because I said, I am God's Son?" (John 10:36)

"'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.'" (John 20:17b)

"I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak....The things I speak, just as the Father has told me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50) Sounds to me like he is subservient to God. God himself wouldn't need anyone to tell him anything.

[Wootah]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #78]

I am God's son. But I don't think Jesus and I mean the same thing.

What does Jesus saying he is God's son mean to you? Explain 'like I am 5' and not commit blasphemy by making not God equal to God.

[JehovahsWitness]

...Explain 'like I am 5' and not commit blasphemy by making not God equal to God.

Are you suggesting saying Jesus is not equal to God ... is "blasphemy"?