Can Advanced Technology Explain The Bible Stories?

[William]

People seem to like to conflate the mysterious. UFOs and the Bible, for example. (SOURCE)

Thanks for taking the time to explain your preferred position on this matter otseng. I see you are unwilling to discuss alternate explanations, so there is no point in my continuing my critique in this thread any further.

To be clear, I am open to discussing alternative explanations for the shroud, but one has to actually propose an alternative, not simply claim it's some unknown future naturalistic explanation yet to be discovered.

(SOURCE)

Keeping Knowledge Hidden?

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Q: Does the idea of artifacts of more ancient and advanced species threaten the philosophies of Supernaturalism and Materialism?

[TRANSPONDER]

I'm afraid we are in the area of 'anecdotal' evidence and unverified claims. I know - we know - that crop circles were always man made. They were obviously reproductions of known images and even adverts, and are done as an art form. It seems the old problem of anything that is not checked, documented researched and verified can be claimed to be something more out of some mysterious origin (claims of humans using lasers or mechanical devices is irrelevant).

It's like something like scientology. we KNOW this a fake and exactly how it started and was exploited. So anyone pointing to 'things we can't explain' has no case. NDEs and OOB are a bit similar. While we have an explanation of what's going on, we have unverified anecdotes (signs or symbols supposedly out of sight) presented as evidence of the floating soul or consciousness being real. These loose and anecdotal claims cannot be credited, especially with crop circles, which we know were and are man - made, no matter that the cultist and faddist believers tried to make them something supernatural with ever - changing hypotheses where saucer - nests turned to mysterious communications and now even with known human images, we may get claims of appearing overnight, when even when we know humans were doing it, nobody EVER saw them doing it.

[William]

My overall position on such matters as supernatural or natural claims is that while the "secrets" of the claimants are kept hidden from my awareness, I best not presume either way/I am best to remain skeptical.

Another example of this approach is with "magic" performed by magicians.

The secret withheld by way of explaining how one can make a large object "disappear" means that scientist cannot replicate the act, which means that scientists haven't figured out the technology used to do this.

Another way of looking at it, is that the magicians are scientists who develop technology which can make something large appear to disappear, but keep their secrets to themselves, so as to make themselves appear to be "magical".

As to NDE/OOBEs et al, those who have never experienced anything of the sort are understandably skeptical about such being "Real" whereas those who have, understand without a doubt that such is indeed Real. Different, undoubtable, but Real, nonetheless.

[TRANSPONDER]

My overall position on such matters as supernatural or natural claims is that while the "secrets" of the claimants are kept hidden from my awareness, I best not presume either way/I am best to remain skeptical.

Another example of this approach is with "magic" performed by magicians.

The secret withheld by way of explaining how one can make a large object "disappear" means that scientist cannot replicate the act, which means that scientists haven't figured out the technology used to do this.

Another way of looking at it, is that the magicians are scientists who develop technology which can make something large appear to disappear, but keep their secrets to themselves, so as to make themselves appear to be "magical".

As to NDE/OOBEs et al, those who have never experienced anything of the sort are understandably skeptical about such being "Real" whereas those who have, understand without a doubt that such is indeed Real. Different, undoubtable, but Real, nonetheless.

I don't think reason and research work that way, and the problem is the old misunderstanding of how reason and research works.

Science has no secrets. It is there for anyone to see. That applies to cutting edge Cosmological physics, or cutting edge engineering. This is not magic.

Aside from the suspension of disbelief with really good conjuring tricks, when you get outside the theatre, the way it works is 'This is not magic. There is some way that was done, even if we don't know how'.

That is how it works with unknowns. the divine, the supernatural and the magical are not ever the Go - to or default hypothesis. Those who think it is are either denying or misunderstanding reason and science and have no business pretending to be either logical or supporting their case with science, ever again.

I trust you are too smart to walk into that bear trap or pitfall.

[William]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #83]

There is no "go to" or "default hypothesis" - that is something of an illusion both Materialists and Supernaturalists believe and make statement-claims about their favored positions.

Either position I consider a "pit-fall - bear-trap" but easy enough to escape with better reasoning.

[Data]

In Diebus Illis Busillis [Latin joke of sorts] - In the Days of Puzzles

Radio Lyceum: Deep Space One

If such evidence does exist, or could be at least construed as a partial evidence, how do we identify such?

I have to admit the possibility that I created Wiremu in my mind - perhaps as a means of offsetting my ignorance as to "Why" I even exist at all.

So I invent Wiremu as a means of trying to explain to myself - to accept my existence as being meaningful and purposeful rather than not being.

Then - naturally - I could say the same thing has gone on with you in regard to you creating The Tanager.

I then remember that it was me who introduced the idea of The Tanager as being Callum's Creator, and at first Callum resisted that, but eventually accepted it because I provided him evidence to support my claim.

But now, it can be argued that I simply gained access to Callum's thoughts by reading them in The Book of Musing On The Mother Act I, and was therefore able to pretend that Wiremu gave me the information and thus convince Callum I was telling the truth.

Callum took a small amount of time to adjust to the information he was Created by The Tanager, but after he accepted it, he then infused himself quite comfortably into that relationship, and quickly it has developed into his going along with anything that The Tanager decides, as Callum at least interprets that to be, as he receives his Messages from The Tanager.

So we are both claiming to be mediums interpreting Messages from our perspective Creators.

That is hardly Science.

I think about my creator - such thoughts occupy my mind permanently, sometimes ticking along in the background, but more often than not, right up in the drivers seat...he has been explaining to me - in small bytes - why he created me. The information is not easy to negotiate.

"Earth will have to act in a way that destroys half the human race before the year 2022, so that the remainder will have a chance to create a new civilization that is geared toward cooperative balance with the environment and exploration of the solar system." Earth Warning

The original demons of the Mormon Church have been enslaved. SCD was one of them. SCD was able to avoid capture. SCD hopes, when awareness is widespread, the the original Mormon demons will be able to be part of the great transformation in religion that is beginning through the world.

The presence of Seventh Chakra Demon settles back into the Knapsack of Agendas. I know that another will emerge, but which one? I wait...

I've read a great deal of what you've written, on your website, at the campfire, and other places on the forum. You've inspired me to begin anew with a virtual parable or illustration of my own I had abandoned. I like your writing, and you have some unique and interesting thoughts as well as implementation, or expression and exploration of those thoughts.

Where I disagree with your perspective, that is to say, where my perspective differs, is much more practical than even theological, though there are huge differences there as well. The difference of perspective would be that advancement in science and technologies are, without a doubt, leading to our destruction. That isn't because they are evil, not at all. It's because we are. But when mankind is dealt the final blow, those technologies will themselves go first. And what we have left will be the local churches for gathering together for news and whatever supplies can be found in the rubble. Not the fragile technologies of the (then) past. This from someone such as myself who wouldn't step foot in a place of worship such as a church.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #83]

There is no "go to" or "default hypothesis" - that is something of an illusion both Materialists and Supernaturalists believe and make statement-claims about their favored positions.

Either position I consider a "pit-fall - bear-trap" but easy enough to escape with better reasoning.

Then you are doing science denial and logic - denial - as is the go -to debating position of Theism. That's fine. You just carry on with Faithclaims and wagging about the logic snd science that was dismissed at need to give spurious support to a bunch of faithclaims.

My Belief is that, once people have had the trick explained to them, they won';t be fooled by it again.

Now, Data old pal, what have you for us?

Oh my god....doomsday fantasies. Have your fun, and the rest of us will carry on just as we did through all the previous doomsday predictions from the mount of olives to the failed predictions of the last few years.

[William]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #86]

There is no "go to" or "default hypothesis" - that is something of an illusion both Materialists and Supernaturalists believe and make statement-claims about their favored positions.

My Belief is that, once people have had the trick explained to them, they won';t be fooled by it again.

Please prove that the human brain is the creator of human consciousness.

[William]

[Replying to Data in post #85]

The difference of perspective would be that advancement in science and technologies are, without a doubt, leading to our destruction. That isn't because they are evil, not at all. It's because we are.

A hammer can be used for many things including head-stoving.

That knowledge only signifies how technological devices can be used. The question is, were such used re some of the bible stories and if so, were they used appropriately?

Humans are no more evil than they are good, so calling humans "evil" is a type of judgmentalism and I try to remain consciously aware of my aim to reduce judgmentalism to zero ...no easy feat, but - I believe - a necessary one.

I would say THAT is "The difference of perspective" between the philosophies you and I currently support...

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #86]

There is no "go to" or "default hypothesis" - that is something of an illusion both Materialists and Supernaturalists believe and make statement-claims about their favored positions.

My Belief is that, once people have had the trick explained to them, they won';t be fooled by it again.

Please prove that the human brain is the creator of human consciousness.

There you go.The way it works is the human bod produces all effects without any 'supernatural'input.The evidence of the workings of the human brain suggests it works that way,too.That is the default hypothesis and the burden of proof falls on you to show it is something else, or you have done the illogical method - assuming a 'supernatural'element is a valid claim until materialists prove it isn't.

Thank you for confirming that you are using the theist and cult - think method.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Data in post #85]

The difference of perspective would be that advancement in science and technologies are, without a doubt, leading to our destruction. That isn't because they are evil, not at all. It's because we are.

A hammer can be used for many things including head-stoving.

That knowledge only signifies how technological devices can be used. The question is, were such used re some of the bible stories and if so, were they used appropriately?

Humans are no more evil than they are good, so calling humans "evil" is a type of judgmentalism and I try to remain consciously aware of my aim to reduce judgmentalism to zero ...no easy feat, but - I believe - a necessary one.

I would say THAT is "The difference of perspective" between the philosophies you and I currently support...

You are correct. Except that humans can do good and bad and the technologies (as data points out) can be used for good or ill. There is an argument that the existence of the nuclear weapons has in fact prevented WWIII. So far.

Humans are what they are for good and ill We know we could and should do better. It is pointless to appeal to religions, their gods and moral codes to cure the problem. It is Our problem.