What is "The Good News?"

[EBA]

Tell me, what is "The Good News?"

Peace be to all.

[EBA]

Yes, there is that. But what about Mary the mother of Jesus regarding God as her savior?

Since I am of the opinion that Christ is God, I don't see an issue there.

Peace.

[Elijah John]

Yes, there is that. But what about Mary the mother of Jesus regarding God as her savior?

Since I am of the opinion that Christ is God, I don't see an issue there.

Peace.

Is there any evidence that Mary herself regarded her son, "Christ as God"?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 73 by OnceConvinced]

I believe that the scriptural references to "just about ready" must be looked at the way God is looking at things. He is eternal. Two thousand years is a fraction of a millisecond to Him. What is that amount of time to Someone who has existed forever?

It's claims like this which make it impossible to take Christians seriously.

Paul was the writer of those words and he was writing to them in terms they understood. Human terms. Why would he speak in god speak?

[quote="[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 385#901385]


Onewithhim responds:

I believe that Paul, who was one of the 144,000 chosen ones, was viewing things the way he knew God would be viewing them. He had an understanding of God and how limitless His power and existence is. I feel that he took all that into consideration, realizing that 2,000 years was nothing to God.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 73 by OnceConvinced]

I believe that the scriptural references to "just about ready" must be looked at the way God is looking at things. He is eternal. Two thousand years is a fraction of a millisecond to Him. What is that amount of time to Someone who has existed forever?

It's claims like this which make it impossible to take Christians seriously.

Paul was the writer of those words and he was writing to them in terms they understood. Human terms. Why would he speak in god speak? That makes absolutely no sense. No intelligent person would do that when they are trying to get a message to fellow humans. If it was 2000 years from now, he would have made that quite clear not continually gone on about how time was short and Jesus's return was eminent.

Just read the verses in context. He wasn't talking in airy-fairy god-speak. He was projecting urgency. Why would he do that if it wasn't happening for another 2000 years? It would all be completely irrelevent to the churches he was writing to. It would have no bearing on those people whatsoever.

Reading the scriptures carefully, it's quite clearly warning them that time was short LITERARLY! He was even telling them not to worry about establishing relationships or to even worry about personal possessions. Why would he do that if the end was another 2000 years away?

The thing is even if the bible is God's word, it's his word to US... HUMANS, not God's word to other gods. So when he speaks to us he talking in human speak. it makes no sense that we should look at it the way God looks at things. He is getting down to our level, so when he talks to us he talks to us in a way that we human's understand.

You don't talk to a child the way you talk to another adult, do you? You speak in terms that the child understands. You don't expect the child to look at things from your perspective. Likewise it makes no sense for an all knowing wise god to expect us to rise to his level and think like a god would.

No, I don't buy that when Paul is talking with such urgency in his tone that he has some other meaning or that he's talking in God-speak. If we can't take the bible at face value for what it says then it's clearly not any word of god to us.

Seriously, why would God expect us to reinterpret his words so that we see it from his perspective?

The disciples who wrote the Scriptures were telling it like God sees it.

And how can you show that to be the case? When the bible talks about the divinity of the bible it's referring to old testament scriptures, not new testament.

Do you not see the sense of urgency in Paul's tone? Just read all his letters. That urgency is there throughout. This was not a guy who was talking about something that was to happen in 2000 years from now. This is a guy who fully believed it was all about to happen in his life time. He even believed he'd preached the gospel to the entire world.

So many other scriptural references show that the time for the end of all evil is now.

Please quote those scriptures. People have been making claims like yours since my father was a child and from what I understand the church has been crying "wolf" about this for the last 2000 years. It seems every Christian that ever existed believed that "the end of all evil is now."

Paul spoke with such urgency because the people he was writing and speaking to were living short lives, compared to eternity, and it was imperative that they make a decision NOW in their lives so that they would be assured of a place in Jesus' government. If they didn't get on board then, they wouldn't be included in Jesus' government. It was a great privilege, and one to be taken seriously at that time. If they died, they would be resurrected in the last days, but it would SEEM as if 2,000 years had not gone by at all, but that they were still back in the first century, because the dead have no consciousness of time passing. It seems quite sensible to me.

[onewithhim]

Jesus is the means by which the Father saves. The salvation comes from the Father, Jehovah, and the name of Jesus/Yeshua actually means "Salvation of Jehovah."

So who is our Savior The Father or the Son or Both?

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. (Isa 43:11)

Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. (Hos 13:4)

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (1Jn 4:14)

To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (Tit 1:4)

The Father is the One who made all the plans and directed Jesus to come to Earth and save mankind.

He "directed Jesus to come to Earth" from where?

Jehovah is responsible for that whole scenario. Jesus did what the Father commanded. (John 5:19; John 8:29; John 12:49,50)

Do you understand why Jesus Christ does what he is commanded?

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (Rev 19:13)

Peace.

Are we kindergarteners here? Of course not. So understanding that the One who plans an event and figures out all the ins-and-outs and then appoints someone to carry them out would be the One responsible for the entire event, is something not too difficult to arrive at. Right?

Jehovah, the Father, planned how salvation would be brought about, and He assigned His Son to go through with those plans. The Father is THE Savior, because all of the power and the responsibility rests with Him. He gave all the necessary power and aid to the Son so that the Son could carry out the plans.

The Son is technically the Savior as well, because he was the instrument that was used, if you will, to bring about the salvation that the Father was offering.


Kind of like the U.S. saving concentration camp prisoners in WWII in 1945. The living prisoners looked at the soldiers that were there, physically, at the camps, as their saviors. And they were. The troops saved the prisoners. But who/what was considered the one that saved concentration camp inmates? The United States. It was the savior of the prisoners. The soldiers, commanded by Dwight Eisenhower, were saviors as well. Eisenhower was called a savior! But does that take away from the fact that the United States was the entity responsible for the liberation of the camps? It is truly THE savior of the prisoners. Eisenhower wouldn't have done it if the U.S. wasn't involved and hadn't sent him.

The same concerning the Father and Jesus: Jehovah is THE Savior of all mankind. All authority came from Him. Jesus did exactly what Jehovah told him to do.

[onewithhim]

Though Paul may have considered Jesus the Savior, Jesus himself seems to have considered Father God the Savior. As did his mother Mary, "my heart rejoices in God my Savior" (from her Canticle)

Hi Elijah John,

Jesus knows he is our savior:

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. (Joh 12:47)

The angel of the Lord knows Jesus Christ is our savior:

And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (Luk 2:10-11)

And there are several other witnesses as well.

Peace.

Jesus is the means by which the Father saves. The salvation comes from the Father, Jehovah, and the name of Jesus/Yeshua actually means "Salvation of Jehovah." The Father is the One who made all the plans and directed Jesus to come to Earth and save mankind. Jehovah is responsible for that whole scenario. Jesus did what the Father commanded.

(John 5:19; John 8:29; John 12:49,50)

Yes, there is that. But what about Mary the mother of Jesus regarding God as her savior?

That goes right along with what is being said here. Mary naturally regarded Jehovah, the Almighty, as her Savior. She recognized what I have been saying here, that Jehovah is the Source of all power and salvation.

[onewithhim]

Yes, there is that. But what about Mary the mother of Jesus regarding God as her savior?

Since I am of the opinion that Christ is God, I don't see an issue there.

Peace.

Since Mary believed that Jehovah---the Father of Jesus and all of us---is God, there is no issue. No one in her generation believed that Jesus was God. That whole doctrine wasn't officially formed for another 400 years. It is not Scriptural.

Jesus himself sealed the point:

He said to Mary Magdelene: "Tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, and to MY GOD and your God.'" (John 20:17, NIV)


Jesus referred to the Father, Jehovah, as "my God." Does God HAVE a God?

[EBA]

Yes, there is that. But what about Mary the mother of Jesus regarding God as her savior?

Since I am of the opinion that Christ is God, I don't see an issue there.

Peace.

Is there any evidence that Mary herself regarded her son, "Christ as God"?

I believe there is; every time she called him by his name.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: (Php 2:9)

Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. (Heb 1:4)

Peace.

[EBA]

What do you think that expression means? Do you think it means "I haven't been clear so you naturally won't understand what I have just explained to you?

No, I dont think thats what Christ means when he says:

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

What I think he mean is that if youve been given the gift to understand the Word of God, you had better listen.

Peace.

[JehovahsWitness]

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

What I think he mean is that if youve been given the gift to understand the Word of God, you had better listen.

okay so why did you say the following?

He made himself clear to the people who came to him afterward and asked him the meaning of what he said, showing themselves to be truly interested. (See Matthew 13:36.)

Actually, no he did not; at least not at that time. If he had he wouldn't have said-[/color]

-Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. (ver. 43)

Can you explain why you said Jesus didn't make himself clear to his disciples and then quoted Mat 13:43.


JW