There are a number of places where prostitution is legal, such as the Netherlands, Spain, Germany, and parts of Nevada. My experience is that a majority of Americans view it as a universally immoral act, and a sizable minority view it as a victimless crime.
Should prostitution be legal?
What are the societal implications of legalization?
Is prostitution wrong?
Please define or explain your sense of right and wrong if you choose to answer this.
Prostitution
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Re: Prostitution
Post #2Prostitution should be legalST88 wrote:There are a number of places where prostitution is legal, such as the Netherlands, Spain, Germany, and parts of Nevada. My experience is that a majority of Americans view it as a universally immoral act, and a sizable minority view it as a victimless crime.
Should prostitution be legal?
What are the societal implications of legalization?
Is prostitution wrong?
Please define or explain your sense of right and wrong if you choose to answer this.
1. Most people that I know have nothing against it but they would not admit it publicly because of what others might thing, and I beleive the majority of Americans actually feel the same way. A lot of men dont want a "real" relationship of a woman they just want someone to be with, maybe go out with to have fun, have sex etc, but at the same time they dont have a commitment so if they see someone else they can have that person also w/o trying to hide from the gf/wife. If he has someone to satisfy him then he does not have to pretend to want to be with someone who would rather have a relationship than just be used for sex.
2. It is going to happen anyway but at least if it's legalised it can be regulated.
3. Some say legalising it will glorify, but being a stripper is legal and not many women persue that option due to the fact that they beleive people wont think of them as someone who has an "ordinary" job. Other countries have it legalised and not everyone in those countries is trying to be a prostitute.
4. There are women who wont have a relationship with a man w/o a certain level of monetary value. It is the same thing, but the only difference is they are having sex with one guy instead of different guys
5. Personally, I will admit I would never have a serious relationship(romantic) with a woman that I knew was a prostitute, but it is the woman's body and as long as she is not passing some STD along to her customers then she should be allowed to do as she pleases.
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Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds dicuss events, Small minds discuss people.
~Eleanor Roosenvelt~
Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds dicuss events, Small minds discuss people.
~Eleanor Roosenvelt~
Re: Prostitution
Post #3Yeah, sure.ST88 wrote:Should prostitution be legal?
I really don't think there would be any significant differences; at least nothing that a coupla zoning ordinances couldn't take care of. Perhaps leaglization could bring about things like health benefits, pension funds, profit sharing, and unionization for prostitutes.ST88 wrote:What are the societal implications of legalization?
By my measure, no, prostitution is not wrong. I guess my sense of right and wrong tells me that so long as the transactions are consensual, whoop-de-doo. And if that's really what I want to do for a living, then that's up to me. I'm entitled to my body, and for a nominal service charge, others could be entitled to it, too; at least for a little while.ST88 wrote:Is prostitution wrong?
Please define or explain your sense of right and wrong if you choose to answer this.
Ha!Regards,
mrmufin
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Post #4
Have to agree that prostitution should be legal. Legalization would probably only improve working and health conditions for any sex worker. Keeping it illegal doesn't make it go away. Busting prostitutes is one of those easy "clean up" measures that ambitious Attorney Generals regularly take up in bids for higher office. Illegality only makes prostitution dangerous and unhealthy for everyone involved.
H is for Hector done in by thugs.
Post #5
Yes. If it was legal, it could be taxed and regulated. Right now if a desperate woman does it for rent/food/etc (the reason doesn't matter, nor if she's doing it because she needs to, or because she enjoys it) she has no legal recourse if someone should wrong her in the course of such actions. If they fail to pay her, if they hurt her, etc...Should prostitution be legal?
As abortions were the 2nd leading cause of female deaths while it was illegal (women had to go to back-alley people, or do it themselves with a hanger), having prostitution illegal requires that a good deal of crimes occur that the victims can't bring to the police without getting punished themselves.
Then society might get over its obsession with sex. As a young male (age 18 ), I am entirely willing to admit that I (on a number of occasions) have simply wished sex could be something that happened without any social baggage attached.What are the societal implications of legalization?
Presently you have the church telling you that sex can only happen after marriage, with the person you wish to spend the rest of your life with, and the programs the president is trying to push that demand abstinence be offered as the only means to contract the side-effects of sex. As such, I content that we as a people could become more healthy if we simply got over it. Fidelity is a concept which has no real meaning, and the lack of such can often destroy people.
Sex is healthy, it happens, and making it as available as alcohol/tobacco/etc will help society get a healthy attitude towards it.
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air...we need believing people."
[Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933]
[Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933]
Post #6
I support the legalisation of prostitution, and can only think of the benefits that can come from it. In addition to what Mr Muffin has stated...
Finally I have to write briefly in favour of the the release of sexual tension and say bad things can come from sexual repression, though I will end my note there, for I do not wish to indict any specific cultures. Some members or former members of America's Debate might remember a prostitute who would frequent the board. She saw her job as giving an essential service to society, soothing people who have a need, and dispensing comfort with sex.
So, ST88, what's your opinion on the matter. I can sorta guess, but let's hear it anyway.
...I would also like to add a few other benefits, not simply for the prostitutes, though reducing the manipulation of pimps, or raising the welfare of downtrodden women (and men, of course) is a noble goal, but society as a whole. If we classed prostitution as a business like any other, there would now be a responsibility towards a prostitute's clients as regards sanitation, health and safety, and failure to comply would result in fines and/or incarceration. As a business, only licensed prostitutes would be allowed to operate, which diverts people who would otherwise be walking the streets and deposits them in the privacy of a brothel (or home if the prostitute so wishes).Mr Muffin wrote: What are the societal implications of legalization?
I really don't think there would be any significant differences; at least nothing that a coupla zoning ordinances couldn't take care of. Perhaps leaglization could bring about things like health benefits, pension funds, profit sharing, and unionization for prostitutes.
Finally I have to write briefly in favour of the the release of sexual tension and say bad things can come from sexual repression, though I will end my note there, for I do not wish to indict any specific cultures. Some members or former members of America's Debate might remember a prostitute who would frequent the board. She saw her job as giving an essential service to society, soothing people who have a need, and dispensing comfort with sex.
So, ST88, what's your opinion on the matter. I can sorta guess, but let's hear it anyway.
<i>'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'</i>
-John Keats, Ode on a Grecian Urn.
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'</i>
-John Keats, Ode on a Grecian Urn.
Re: Prostitution
Post #7Should prostitution be legal?
Yes, I believe it should be legal, regulated, and taxed.
What are the societal implications of legalization?
I think the main problem our culture has with sex is that it is equated with love. In my opinion, they are separate. And though they can be connected, it isn't necessary to connect them. Right now, there is a prostitution mindset about being on the edges of society, and mainstream culture views a descent into prostitution as the result of being "fallen". Like concerro, I see little difference between a woman who marries for money, and a woman who lives as a whore for an unknown number of different men. The ideal of marriage somehow whitewashes this relationship.
As Paul says:
One of the consequences would be the increased awareness (and distinction) of legal and illegal types of prostitution. For example, child prostitution. If prostitutes are only legal at the age of consent (17, 18, 19), then child prostitution becomes that much more socially reprehensible and punishable. In addition, I don't think the stigma of prostitution will be removed, much as strippers are regarded with disdain by "Middle America," but the fear of more-or-less random arrest of participants would be removed.
I would be worried about creating a socially legitimate class of women who would most likely be poor or recent immigrants (or both), and that large companies would make "arrangements" for a factory-style (or assembly-line type) of service, making exploitation not only a matter of morals, as it is now, but of capitalism. This brings a whole new meaning to the word outsourcing. This is done now in Japan, under the table of course, as it were, with "business" trips to China and Thailand.
Another worry is social stigma. If it were regulated, that would mean government records of who and when -- not the johns, but the prostitutes themselves. Right now, a woman can work her way through law school in secret if she so chooses. But it would be much more difficult to pursue this path if her participation in prostitution at the time were a matter of government record -- even if the documents were sealed (these things never stay sealed). Though this is an extreme example, I think this stigma would still exist for anyone choosing this path just as it does now. The only difference would be the existence of proof for that path.
Though, to me, there is little philosophical difference between posing in sexual situations for a men's magazine and actually performing the sexual act, often women are lauded for posing while excoriated for performing; Americans have such a weird relationship to sex.
Is prostitution wrong?
My idea of right-and-wrong is situational and relative, so I think that this question should only apply to the individuals involved. I don't think I would want anyone in my family to be prostitute, but I recognize this is probably a social prejudice on my part. Myself, I would not want to be one.
I can see a social good in prostitiution, but I wonder about the personal good. I would think that it would still be an occupation of last resort. But is there a "good" that can come to and from the individual making the choice to be one? What might this say about what kind of work it is?
Yes, I believe it should be legal, regulated, and taxed.
What are the societal implications of legalization?
I think the main problem our culture has with sex is that it is equated with love. In my opinion, they are separate. And though they can be connected, it isn't necessary to connect them. Right now, there is a prostitution mindset about being on the edges of society, and mainstream culture views a descent into prostitution as the result of being "fallen". Like concerro, I see little difference between a woman who marries for money, and a woman who lives as a whore for an unknown number of different men. The ideal of marriage somehow whitewashes this relationship.
As Paul says:
In other words, according to Paul, the ideal marriage is consecrated specifically for the purpose of sexual release. I think this might help explain why gold-diggers are tolerated as marriage partners. Though whoring is a more dangerous version of this in terms of disease, as has been said before, regluation could take care of that.1 Corinthians 7:1-2
...it is good for a man not to touch a woman.
But because of immoralities, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.
One of the consequences would be the increased awareness (and distinction) of legal and illegal types of prostitution. For example, child prostitution. If prostitutes are only legal at the age of consent (17, 18, 19), then child prostitution becomes that much more socially reprehensible and punishable. In addition, I don't think the stigma of prostitution will be removed, much as strippers are regarded with disdain by "Middle America," but the fear of more-or-less random arrest of participants would be removed.
I would be worried about creating a socially legitimate class of women who would most likely be poor or recent immigrants (or both), and that large companies would make "arrangements" for a factory-style (or assembly-line type) of service, making exploitation not only a matter of morals, as it is now, but of capitalism. This brings a whole new meaning to the word outsourcing. This is done now in Japan, under the table of course, as it were, with "business" trips to China and Thailand.
Another worry is social stigma. If it were regulated, that would mean government records of who and when -- not the johns, but the prostitutes themselves. Right now, a woman can work her way through law school in secret if she so chooses. But it would be much more difficult to pursue this path if her participation in prostitution at the time were a matter of government record -- even if the documents were sealed (these things never stay sealed). Though this is an extreme example, I think this stigma would still exist for anyone choosing this path just as it does now. The only difference would be the existence of proof for that path.
Though, to me, there is little philosophical difference between posing in sexual situations for a men's magazine and actually performing the sexual act, often women are lauded for posing while excoriated for performing; Americans have such a weird relationship to sex.
Is prostitution wrong?
My idea of right-and-wrong is situational and relative, so I think that this question should only apply to the individuals involved. I don't think I would want anyone in my family to be prostitute, but I recognize this is probably a social prejudice on my part. Myself, I would not want to be one.
I can see a social good in prostitiution, but I wonder about the personal good. I would think that it would still be an occupation of last resort. But is there a "good" that can come to and from the individual making the choice to be one? What might this say about what kind of work it is?
Prostitution should be legalized
Post #8The Pagan Rede is "Do what thou wilt and harm none". I do therefore not believe that prostitution is wrong and I agree that prostitution should be legalized.
If it is legal, it can be zoned (no more idiots complaining about there being "hookers on every corner"), taxed, regulated and state health inspected. It can also be safe, as armed private security can also be present in a clean, open brothel instead of an alley or seedy tenement, etc. To my knowledge, there have not been any reported case of AIDS in Nevada brothels. Additionally, it is not the government's business as to "reporting" who is in the profession or who any clients were.
Obviously, those who exploit the under-aged in child sex-slave situations, etc. should be dealt with very harshly, but there will always be those of-age adults (both men and women) who voluntarily choose the profession.
Unfortunately, there may be adults who are forced into it, due to lack of education or hard times. A responsible government will see to it that as few people as possible end up "falling through the cracks" in society. This does not mean permanently living on the public dole, but it may involve assistance via job training and other programs. (i.e. a hand-up, not a hand-out). I have not seen too much concern with regard to this area from the neo-cons.
The greatest tragedy of all however, may involve the socially inept individual, who for whatever reason has difficulty finding an appropriate partner, and for whom a legal brothel could be a source of some level of gratification, but who, because of the illegality of prostitution becomes a rapist, child predator or worse yet in addition to those, a murderer. This it not to say that legalizing prostitution will prevent all rape/murders, etc. by the criminally deranged, but if it could spare one innocent in even a single case where it might have, it should be legalized for that possibility alone.
To the extremist religio-statists however, who are under the illusion that they have the right to dictate to two consenting adults what they will do behind closed doors, it would seem to be "worth it", to sacrifice a few innocents on the altar of "societal morality".
K
If it is legal, it can be zoned (no more idiots complaining about there being "hookers on every corner"), taxed, regulated and state health inspected. It can also be safe, as armed private security can also be present in a clean, open brothel instead of an alley or seedy tenement, etc. To my knowledge, there have not been any reported case of AIDS in Nevada brothels. Additionally, it is not the government's business as to "reporting" who is in the profession or who any clients were.
Obviously, those who exploit the under-aged in child sex-slave situations, etc. should be dealt with very harshly, but there will always be those of-age adults (both men and women) who voluntarily choose the profession.
Unfortunately, there may be adults who are forced into it, due to lack of education or hard times. A responsible government will see to it that as few people as possible end up "falling through the cracks" in society. This does not mean permanently living on the public dole, but it may involve assistance via job training and other programs. (i.e. a hand-up, not a hand-out). I have not seen too much concern with regard to this area from the neo-cons.
The greatest tragedy of all however, may involve the socially inept individual, who for whatever reason has difficulty finding an appropriate partner, and for whom a legal brothel could be a source of some level of gratification, but who, because of the illegality of prostitution becomes a rapist, child predator or worse yet in addition to those, a murderer. This it not to say that legalizing prostitution will prevent all rape/murders, etc. by the criminally deranged, but if it could spare one innocent in even a single case where it might have, it should be legalized for that possibility alone.
To the extremist religio-statists however, who are under the illusion that they have the right to dictate to two consenting adults what they will do behind closed doors, it would seem to be "worth it", to sacrifice a few innocents on the altar of "societal morality".
K
In Ma'at
(Mystical Kemet)
(Mystical Kemet)
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Post #9
Until the link between drug addiction and prostitution is broken then prostitutes will remain victims whether within legalised institutions or not.
Whilst legalisation would lead to a number of clear benefits to do with health, regulation, safety etc it would do nothing to address the underlying causes of prostitution across society.
As such any policy on prostitution should be part of a holistic approach to social reform, including, for example, social regeneration, drug legalisation and rehabilitation, addressing organised crime effectively, education, reforming immigration policies and a reduction in the gap between rich and poor. Only something along the lines of overall social engineering will help to remove the underlying need for women to turn to prostitution - although I accept that it will be there no matter what is done.
People who denegrate prostitutes often say that it is their lifestyle choice. In most cases it is not a matter of choice - many are forced into prostitution by societal circumstances that, in real terms, lie outside their locus of control.
By all means legalise it - but don't expect it to be a cure all for what can be a reflection of society's failings in terms of social support.
Whilst legalisation would lead to a number of clear benefits to do with health, regulation, safety etc it would do nothing to address the underlying causes of prostitution across society.
As such any policy on prostitution should be part of a holistic approach to social reform, including, for example, social regeneration, drug legalisation and rehabilitation, addressing organised crime effectively, education, reforming immigration policies and a reduction in the gap between rich and poor. Only something along the lines of overall social engineering will help to remove the underlying need for women to turn to prostitution - although I accept that it will be there no matter what is done.
People who denegrate prostitutes often say that it is their lifestyle choice. In most cases it is not a matter of choice - many are forced into prostitution by societal circumstances that, in real terms, lie outside their locus of control.
By all means legalise it - but don't expect it to be a cure all for what can be a reflection of society's failings in terms of social support.
Post #10
Should prostitution be legal?
It seems to be nearly unanimous so far, and I for one agree with legalization in a manner similar to alcohol. Uncle Sam (or insert authoritarian system of control) has no business telling individuals what they can or cant do in regard to any such consenting business transaction.
What are the societal implications of legalization?
Not much is going to change at all. Much like our 'War on Drugs' making the good/service illegal is only going to effect the price. The demand remains constant, and the supply should not fluctuate greatly, if at all beyond the short term.
As far as the health and personal safety concerns go, what would change? There are always those who operate outside regulation in any market, and those that would take a safer approach are probably doing so already.
Government intervention is irrelevant, all that changes are some abstract laws.
Is prostitution wrong?
Yes. I have a really hard time with women becoming objects to 'get off on' rather than people with emotions, feelings and real worth as individuals. It destroys those involved, and ruins their relationships now and in the future. A lot of times I think that people underestimate how debilitating emotional baggage can be. No matter how one looks at the situation it is still rough and has a high cost in human beings.
As for me and my house, I hope we never have to deal with this issue. I know I would not tolerate this behavior, mostly because I could not stand by and see the ones I love consumed by it. To me its wrong, you do whatever you want to.
It seems to be nearly unanimous so far, and I for one agree with legalization in a manner similar to alcohol. Uncle Sam (or insert authoritarian system of control) has no business telling individuals what they can or cant do in regard to any such consenting business transaction.
What are the societal implications of legalization?
Not much is going to change at all. Much like our 'War on Drugs' making the good/service illegal is only going to effect the price. The demand remains constant, and the supply should not fluctuate greatly, if at all beyond the short term.
As far as the health and personal safety concerns go, what would change? There are always those who operate outside regulation in any market, and those that would take a safer approach are probably doing so already.
Government intervention is irrelevant, all that changes are some abstract laws.
Is prostitution wrong?
Yes. I have a really hard time with women becoming objects to 'get off on' rather than people with emotions, feelings and real worth as individuals. It destroys those involved, and ruins their relationships now and in the future. A lot of times I think that people underestimate how debilitating emotional baggage can be. No matter how one looks at the situation it is still rough and has a high cost in human beings.
As for me and my house, I hope we never have to deal with this issue. I know I would not tolerate this behavior, mostly because I could not stand by and see the ones I love consumed by it. To me its wrong, you do whatever you want to.
What is the first business of one who practices philosophy? To get rid of self-conceit. For it is impossible for anyone to begin to learn that which he thinks he already knows.
- Epictetus (Discourses)
- Epictetus (Discourses)
