Should prostitution be illegal?

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McCulloch
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Should prostitution be illegal?

Post #1

Post by McCulloch »

micatala wrote:We typically only make things illegal when they present significant and immediate danger of harm to others.
East of Eden wrote:Not always, prostitution for example.
Should prostitution be illegal? Why or why not? Are the objections to prostitution's legality only religious?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
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Post #2

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How about we look at a real life example?

New Zealand legalized prostitution in 2003-

Selling Sex Legally in New Zealand
When "Sophie", a medical worker from Christchurch, fell behind on her mortgage payments last year, she found that her job was not paying enough. Her only option was a temporary career change: she became a prostitute.

"I needed money fast so I didn't lose my house," she explains.

A soft-spoken 30-something with a shy smile, Sophie does not look like the stereotypical scarlet woman, even in the low-cut dress she wears at work.

She does not feel like one either. "I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't do drugs. I'm a vegetarian," she says, adding that she had qualms about her new job.

But the city centre parlour she joined - basically a pub with a sitting area at the front and bedrooms at the back - was not the drug-fuelled dive she had imagined.

"All the women here are lovely," she says. "We spend a lot of time sitting and talking. I'll stick it out a bit longer."

Good money
Some might question the morality of Sophie's choice, but legally it cannot be faulted.

Since the Prostitution Reform Act of 2003, brothels have been allowed to operate more or less freely.
Sex workers have the same rights as everyone else. In the eyes of New Zealand's law, the oldest profession is just like any other.

This policy stands in marked contrast to Europe. In 1999 Sweden criminalised the purchase of sex services, and several countries are introducing similar laws in an attempt to combat trafficking.

Ask New Zealand sex workers what they think of Swedish-style strictures, and the response is overwhelmingly negative.

"Whether you're prosecuting the men or the girls, you're still prosecuting the business," says "Lucy", 23, from Wellington.

Lucy works in Bon Ton, an exclusive establishment in the capital where an hour-long session costs NZ$400 (140; $200). She says the reform has given her the opportunity to work for a legitimate business in a safe environment.

"I make twice what I was earning in retail. I am appreciated by customers and my boss. I can work whenever I want to - it's by far the most gratifying work I've ever had," she says.

Legal rights
Lucy's manager, Sarah, also believes criminalising clients would be a disaster for the industry and put the girls at risk.
"This would scare away the quality customers," she says. "We would be left with the dangerous sort. The nasty men won't go away."

Bon Ton - which thrives on "quality customers" like lawyers and civil servants - certainly looks like an ideal showcase for New Zealand-style liberalisation.

The bedrooms look like luxury suites, the upstairs office looks like - well... an office, and the workers say they are treated with respect.

Sarah insists she has zero tolerance for abuse and will back the girls even if they refuse a client. "I can't force a woman to have sex," she says.

As she speaks another girl appears at the door, draped in a towel. "Myah" looks at the work ahead, and realises that a client who often insists on having oral sex without a condom wants to see her.

"I don't want him," Myah says. "No problem," Sarah replies. "I'll tell him you're not available."
Myah is not afraid to turn down work. Her health is at stake, and the law requires a condom for any commercial sex act. "It is my legal right to make that demand," she says.

But are the benefits from legalisation confined to high-end businesses like Bon Ton?

According to Catherine Healy of the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective (NZPC), better and safer working practices are now the norm.

Across the industry, she says, women are now aware of their rights and exploitative brothel owners are becoming marginalised as a result of the reform.

"Sex workers say: I can work across town," she says. "The dynamic has altered."

Anna Reed, who was a sex worker in Christchurch for 23 years and is now NZPC's local spokesperson, agrees that exploitative practices have become rare.

"Owners used to demand huge fines for being late. They used to hire and fire workers without reason." But now, she says, "girls feel more able to stand up for themselves".

Limited change
Another key benefit of decriminalisation, according to Ms Healy, is a sea change in relations with the police: "If you're the one committing a crime, you won't ask the police for help."
Now, Ms Healy says, the girls find law enforcement officials are on their side.

This idea was borne out by a parliamentary report last year, which gave a positive assessment of the reform. It said prostitutes were more likely to report violence to police, and officers were treating their complaints seriously.

Some brothel operators, however, are not so sure the reform has made a big difference.

Bon Ton owner Jennifer - who got into the sex business after decriminalisation - says some old-style establishments are still exploiting people. "This is still an industry in transition," she says.

Monique, who ran brothels before 2003 and now owns Capri, a "Gentleman's club and garden bar" in Christchurch, also plays down the impact of the reform - but for the opposite reason.

She says relations with police were good even when bordellos operated illegally. And then, as now, exploitation of girls was never widespread, Monique adds.

"We now have a fat, legal agreement with the workers but they are treated the same."

Suspicions
A sure sign that New Zealand's sex trade has not been entirely revolutionised is that society still frowns on it.

Last year a teacher was sacked when it was learnt that she occasionally - and perfectly legally - moonlighted as a prostitute.
Many sex workers keep a regular part-time job to avoid leaving suspicious gaps on their CVs.

They tell only trusted friends about their main activity. None of the working prostitutes and madams interviewed for this report was ready to give their real names.

Brothels may be legal but most New Zealanders prefer not to live next to one.

Bon Ton never mentions an address in its adverts - only a phone number. In Christchurch operators had to fight a proposed zoning law that would have kept them out of most areas.

But the overwhelming majority in the business feels huge progress was made when the industry emerged from the shadow.

Anna Reed says she loved working as a prostitute - "I had sex, money and men!" - and resents enduring cliches about a job no-one in her right mind could willingly embrace.

"We get so pissed off when politicians portray us as victims," she says.

"It's important to blow down the stereotypes about sex workers - particularly that of the poor girl who is coerced into doing it."

I'm not going to give my opinion on it just yet, I was just presenting this as an part of the examination of prostitution

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Post #3

Post by McCulloch »

Can we compare prostitution with charging interest or consuming alcohol? There are biblical sanctions against all of these and they seem inevitable in modern society. Two are legal and licensed and one is not. Why? What purpose does prohibition serve?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
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Post #4

Post by OnceConvinced »

I have no problems with it being legal. Even as a Christian, even thought I questioned the morality of it, it was fine by me. It provides a sevice, meets needs and in NZ they seem to be doing a good job of regulating it. I still never come across any street prostitutes down here. I expected there'd be a lot more since it was legalised, but there isn't.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

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There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


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Post #5

Post by OpenedUp »

OnceConvinced wrote:I have no problems with it being legal. Even as a Christian, even thought I questioned the morality of it, it was fine by me. It provides a sevice, meets needs and in NZ they seem to be doing a good job of regulating it. I still never come across any street prostitutes down here. I expected there'd be a lot more since it was legalised, but there isn't.
See, we even have a person in/from New Zealand to testify :D


If it doesn't effect the rights of others, I don't really see where the problem lies

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Post #6

Post by otseng »

McCulloch wrote:Can we compare prostitution with charging interest or consuming alcohol? There are biblical sanctions against all of these and they seem inevitable in modern society. Two are legal and licensed and one is not. Why? What purpose does prohibition serve?
Or an even more relevant comparison. Should adultery be made illegal? My personal take is that adultery should be made illegal before prostitution. I would think adultery has done more to damage families than prostitution has.

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Post #7

Post by McCulloch »

McCulloch wrote:Can we compare prostitution with charging interest or consuming alcohol? There are biblical sanctions against all of these and they seem inevitable in modern society. Two are legal and licensed and one is not. Why? What purpose does prohibition serve?
otseng wrote:Or an even more relevant comparison. Should adultery be made illegal? My personal take is that adultery should be made illegal before prostitution. I would think adultery has done more to damage families than prostitution has.
Good point. Adultery is the violation of a marriage contract to remain sexually faithful. Thus should be covered under civil not criminal law. Prostitution is ( or should be) a contract for sexual services for a fee.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
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Post #8

Post by JMM »

otseng wrote:Should adultery be made illegal? My personal take is that adultery should be made illegal before prostitution. I would think adultery has done more to damage families than prostitution has.
I guess that depends on how many people have committed adultery BY soliciting prostitutes! :)

You're right, otseng. It makes no sense for prostitution to be illegal while adultery is legal. It makes no more sense for marijuana to be illegal while alcohol is legal. In both cases, the latter appears to be more statistically harmful than the former.

Now, I am a Christian, and according to my beliefs, both adultery AND prostitution are morally wrong. However, I am NOT a theocrat. I do not wish to utilize the secular legal system to impose my religious beliefs on others in this country who may not share them. So, in the absense of any statistical data that would show how prostitution would actually HARM our country or "damage families".....I see the current ban on prostitution as yet another religiously-motivated "vice law".

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Post #9

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Yes, prostitution should be, and in many cases is legal.

Ask anyone who ever had to foot the bill for a night on the town in order to woo a woman, and then make a determination about what constitutes prostitution.

Sometimes its cheaper to just hand her your wallet to begin with.
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Post #10

Post by MagusYanam »

I think in light of the Gospel, the question ought to be - is it exploitative? Does it undermine the dignity and socioeconomic self-determination of the women involved? It is true that New Zealand's situation does sound very different from Europe's or Southeast Asia's, where prostitution is very closely tied to slavery and human trafficking.

One big problem that I see here is mostly that this can be used as an excuse to defend other semi-legal or illegal systems in other countries in which women are exploited, and in which they have no choice the way 'Sophie' does. The second big problem is that it sounds like 'Sophie' was pushed into it by economic difficulties, rather than it truly being her choice.

(On that note, I think adultery is also exploitative, but on a far smaller and far less systematic scale than prostitution - so I have to disagree with otseng and JMM on this one. I can see the reasoning for tackling prostitution before abortion.)
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