Atheism is not a belief?

[Guest]

Please note: atheism is a lack of belief it is not a belief.

I probably really do not open this can, but the assertion was made and it is intriguing.

How can there be an idea that one can believe, yet at the same time it not be?

There has to be some criteria which would have to be used to create this "not a belief" Yes? No?

[bernee51]

Please note: atheism is a lack of belief it is not a belief.

I probably really do not open this can, but the assertion was made and it is intriguing.

How can there be an idea that one can believe, yet at the same time it not be?

How does my statement reflect this position?

There has to be some criteria which would have to be used to create this "not a belief" Yes? No?

Yes - the criteria is theism.

If theism did not exist neither would atheism.

When an atheist (this one anyway) discusses god he his discussing the concept as laid out by those who believe that god exists as more than a concept.

What an atheist may or may not believe beyond a lack of belief in gods does not speak to his/her atheism per se.

For example. I have a lack of belief in gods - that is what defines me as an atheist.

I believe that all thoughts, ideas, concepts (god included) are and can only be mental constructs. That has nothing to do with atheism.

[Angel]

Please note: atheism is a lack of belief it is not a belief.

I probably really do not open this can, but the assertion was made and it is intriguing.

How can there be an idea that one can believe, yet at the same time it not be?

There has to be some criteria which would have to be used to create this "not a belief" Yes? No?

There are different types of atheism, such as strong (or positive) atheism and weak (or negative) atheism, etc. You can read that here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#De ... stinctions

I should also say that some people argue that the original meaning of the word "atheism" only means "lack of belief". Even if this is the case, to avoid some confusion we can say that there are *new* or different forms of atheism that have developed. I don't see anything wrong with this just as long as that is clarified as in specifying which form or type of atheism that you're referring to. Language evolves and it's common for new words, concepts, and definitions to be added. Considering all of this, I would say that strong (or positive) atheism is a belief but weak (or negative) atheism is not. Positive atheism asserts that no god(s) exists. That is a claim or assertion, and as such, if accepted by someone it is then a belief in that viewpoint (until proven). Negative atheism has no claims or assertions since it only involves not believing or lack of belief in any god which is not the same as saying that no gods exist or that all gods are false.

[McCulloch]

Please note: atheism is a lack of belief it is not a belief.

I probably really do not open this can, but the assertion was made and it is intriguing.

How can there be an idea that one can believe, yet at the same time it not be?

There has to be some criteria which would have to be used to create this "not a belief" Yes? No?

No. We believe things, some true, probably some false, because we have reasons to believe those things. Without reasons to believe those things, we don't believe them.

[Guest]

How does my statement reflect this position?

Atheism is NOT a belief, it is a lack of belief.

Yes - the criteria is theism.

Which is a belief

If theism did not exist neither would atheism.

So I cannot believe there are no purple garden elves until someone else believes there are?

When an atheist (this one anyway) discusses god he his discussing the concept as laid out by those who believe that god exists as more than a concept.

What an atheist may or may not believe beyond a lack of belief in gods does not speak to his/her atheism per se.

So you cannot make a claim that you believe God does not exist? If you do that would be making a statement about a void in your world view where there is just "no God." Or actually there is no void either. .not sure how you can declare anything about that non existent nothing.....

For example. I have a lack of belief in gods - that is what defines me as an atheist.

You "have"? You have no beliefs that create a lack of belief, it is just something you "have?" I cant think of anything conceptually that I just have.....

I believe that all thoughts, ideas, concepts (god included) are and can only be mental constructs. That has nothing to do with atheism.

It has everything to do with atheism. It is the beleif that those thoughts, ideas, concepts (god inlcuded) are wrong or delusional.

[Guest]

Please note: atheism is a lack of belief it is not a belief.

I probably really do not open this can, but the assertion was made and it is intriguing.

How can there be an idea that one can believe, yet at the same time it not be?

There has to be some criteria which would have to be used to create this "not a belief" Yes? No?

There are different types of atheism, such as strong (or positive) atheism and weak (or negative) atheism, etc. You can read that here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#De ... stinctions

I should also say that some people argue that the original meaning of the word "atheism" only means "lack of belief". Even if this is the case, to avoid some confusion we can say that there are *new* or different forms of atheism that have developed. I don't see anything wrong with this just as long as that is clarified as in specifying which form or type of atheism that you're referring to. Language evolves and it's common for new words, concepts, and definitions to be added. Considering all of this, I would say that strong (or positive) atheism is a belief but weak (or negative) atheism is not. Positive atheism asserts that no god(s) exists. That is a claim or assertion, and as such, if accepted by someone it is then a belief in that viewpoint (until proven). Negative atheism has no claims or assertions since it only involves not believing or lack of belief in any god which is not the same as saying that no gods exist or that all gods are false.

Yes, soft, hard, cold, hot, green, blue and all the other isms of atheism are just too confusing to me. Particularly if the label is supposed to apply to a non-belief. I either believe God exists or not. Putting labels just puts my belief on a meter and tells me how much I believe or a little I believe.............without becoming an agnostic. I think there are strong cases for beleif AND unbelief. I think that makes me a "agnostheisticist mongrel" (my new word).

[Guest]

Please note: atheism is a lack of belief it is not a belief.

I probably really do not open this can, but the assertion was made and it is intriguing.

How can there be an idea that one can believe, yet at the same time it not be?

There has to be some criteria which would have to be used to create this "not a belief" Yes? No?

No. We believe things, some true, probably some false, because we have reasons to believe those things. Without reasons to believe those things, we don't believe them.

OK, but the question does not have anything to do with believing things. I believe many things also, and dont believe probably as many or more.

You appear to be being careful not to say you do not have reason to believe God exists for lack of reasons. Which would be a belief about the credibility of any reason you have been presented.

[bernee51]

How does my statement reflect this position?

Atheism is NOT a belief, it is a lack of belief.

Exactly.

You stated: How can there be an idea that one can believe, yet at the same time it not be?

I ask again - what has you statement to do with my lack of belief?

I suspect it is that wonderful piece of logic oft expressed by believers that in order to acknowledge a lack of belief in something there must first be a belief. Ergo - those who claim a lack of belief are in fact expressing belief.

As stated elsewhere I freely acknowledge the existence of the concept of god - I do however lack any belief whatsoever that this concept represents anything other than a concept.

Yes - the criteria is theism.

Which is a belief

That is correct : theism is belief in god, atheism is lack of belief in god.

I fail to understand why the average punter has so much trouble getting their head around that.

If theism did not exist neither would atheism.

So I cannot believe there are no purple garden elves until someone else believes there are?

By mentioning it you created the concept of a 'purple elf.'

Whether or not you are a 'purple elvist' or 'apurple elvist' is decided by whether or not you believe they are more than that concept.

When an atheist (this one anyway) discusses god he his discussing the concept as laid out by those who believe that god exists as more than a concept.

What an atheist may or may not believe beyond a lack of belief in gods does not speak to his/her atheism per se.

So you cannot make a claim that you believe God does not exist? If you do that would be making a statement about a void in your world view where there is just "no God." Or actually there is no void either. .not sure how you can declare anything about that non existent nothing.....

I make no claim about it at all - other than to lack belief in it as anything other than the concept as expressed by others.

For example. I have a lack of belief in gods - that is what defines me as an atheist.

You "have"? You have no beliefs that create a lack of belief, it is just something you "have?" I cant think of anything conceptually that I just have.....

So drop the 'to have'...let it read "I lack belief in gods"

I believe that all thoughts, ideas, concepts (god included) are and can only be mental constructs. That has nothing to do with atheism.

It has everything to do with atheism. It is the belief that those thoughts, ideas, concepts (god inlcuded) are wrong or delusional.

Atheism is the lack of belief in gods. The fact that I believe as I do regarding the nature of being does not prerequisite atheism.

Delusional is your word not mine. Allusions are not necessarily delusions.

And if someone holds a concept to be more than so and lives as if it is so who am I to claim wrong or right for them.

[Fallibleone]

Please note: atheism is a lack of belief it is not a belief.

I probably really do not open this can, but the assertion was made and it is intriguing.

How can there be an idea that one can believe, yet at the same time it not be?

There has to be some criteria which would have to be used to create this "not a belief" Yes? No?

There are different types of atheism, such as strong (or positive) atheism and weak (or negative) atheism, etc. You can read that here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#De ... stinctions

I should also say that some people argue that the original meaning of the word "atheism" only means "lack of belief". Even if this is the case, to avoid some confusion we can say that there are *new* or different forms of atheism that have developed. I don't see anything wrong with this just as long as that is clarified as in specifying which form or type of atheism that you're referring to. Language evolves and it's common for new words, concepts, and definitions to be added. Considering all of this, I would say that strong (or positive) atheism is a belief but weak (or negative) atheism is not. Positive atheism asserts that no god(s) exists. That is a claim or assertion, and as such, if accepted by someone it is then a belief in that viewpoint (until proven). Negative atheism has no claims or assertions since it only involves not believing or lack of belief in any god which is not the same as saying that no gods exist or that all gods are false.

Yes, soft, hard, cold, hot, green, blue and all the other isms of atheism are just too confusing to me. Particularly if the label is supposed to apply to a non-belief.

That it is too confusing to you does not change the fact that there are two distinct kinds of atheism. The basic label refers to simple non-belief. The other refers to an extra belief (that God does not exist) on top of that.

I either believe God exists or not. Putting labels just puts my belief on a meter and tells me how much I believe or a little I believe.............without becoming an agnostic. I think there are strong cases for beleif AND unbelief. I think that makes me a "agnostheisticist mongrel" (my new word).

Everyone who is not a theist does not believe in God. This includes agnostics too. The only agnostic who is not also an atheist is an agnostic theist.

Gonostic theist - 'knows' that God exists.
Agnostic theist - does not know for sure, but lives life as if God is there.
Agnostic atheist - does not know for sure, but lives life as if God is not there.
Gnostic atheist - 'knows' that God does not exist.

Most atheists fit into the agnostic atheist category. They allow the tiny (they think) possibility that God might exist because one cannot realistically rule it out 100%, and so they don't claim to know that God does not exist.

Atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive, because one is based on lack of belief, and the other is based on lack of knowledge. Two different things. .

[Poverello]

This is off the top of my head. Please rip it to shreds if you can.

An atheist who truly "lacks belief in a God or gods" is one who has never even conceived of such a thing as God or gods; But a man who calls himself an atheist is actively rejecting understood assertions about God or gods as false on a daily basis.

I believe I can say this because the idea of God includes universal claims regarding our perception of everything, and when a man consistently perceives the world as godless, he is making a positive assertion in practice that the concepts about God or gods he has once understood are positively false.

Therefore it can be said that atheism, when claimed, is necessarily an active belief that God/gods does not exist.