Can an athiest believe in biblical values?

[tatty]

I do not believe in the existence of a god.
I have read the bible several times, and the gospel many more, and I do not believe there is a metaphysical being that watches over me and created the world.

But, and there is a but, I do believe in the general principles that the bible teaches.

For example, the Ten Commandments. (referring specifically to commandments 5-10)

I think in terms of guidelines to live by, they are extremely useful.


FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'


Its true. You should live by these rules, but I think the threat of eternal damnation if one doesn't just fuels the fire for the argument of the church as a control mechanism.

Most religious texts promote similar living standards, and basic human morality does to.

So what does that make me? An atheist who values biblical morals?

[JoeyKnothead]

My opinion is that the church places human[/i] moral values onto their favored god, and not vice versa. My evidence is the failure of the church/apologists to verify their claims a god has an opinion on moral values.

[McCulloch]

I do not believe in the existence of a god.

Then you are an atheist.

But, and there is a but, I do believe in the general principles that the bible teaches.

No you do not. The general principle that is taught in the Bible is to seek first after that which is God, to love God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength and all your mind. And to love your neighbor as yourself.

For example, the Ten Commandments. (referring specifically to commandments 5-10)

What about 1-4? Isn't it a packaged deal? Doesn't keeping the Sabbath rank up there with not murdering for you?

I think in terms of guidelines to live by, they are extremely useful.

Not really.

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

Without qualifications?

Its true. You should live by these rules, [...]

Most religious texts promote similar living standards, and basic human morality does to.

So what does that make me? An atheist who values biblical morals?

How about an atheist who has some points of agreement with those who hold Biblical morals? Presumably, you disagree with death for those who withhold contributions to the church ( Acts 5:1-5 ).

[Tiberius47]

The ten commandments are nothing more than useful guidelines to living in society - don't kill, etc. They did not come from a God, but they came from people, who later claimed they came from a God in order to make them seem more important to follow.

The rest of the commandments are basically an advertising spiel - "Don't use a competitor's product, or you'll suffer!"

[PacMan]

I personally consider making the absolute claim that God does or does not exist is ignorant and will ultimately create intolerance. The reason that it is ignorant is neither side can prove it, not to say that either side needs to prove it, of course... If you can accept this then neither side has to carry the burden of proof and there can be universal tolerance.

Anyway, that was off topic but the reason I said it was because a person from an atheistic perspective would see truth in the statement. As for the OP, think about how societies first came about. 10,000 to 20,000 years ago what you had was the birth of agrarian society. Imagine you and I had neighboring farms in ths era, each about 10 acres. What if I came over to your farm, killed you, your family, and took your farm... Look now I have 20 acres! What would prevent me from wanting to do that besides the chance of losing of course? Nothing. What that meant was you had to stay home and defend your home and your family, leaving you no time to till your land, meaning no surplus food for non-farmers, etc. No society. Insert religion and problem solved. When religion was invented (and it is an invention, even if there is a religion that is true, that means the rest aren't which means you can come to the conclusion that all religions except this one hypothetical correct religion were created by man) it had to contain moral values that curbed human greed and lust. Society cannot exist without these morals, so before society could form, these morals need to be both instilled and widely accepted as truths.

What this means of course is exactly what Tiberius just said. These values were around long before the Bible was, the Bible merely adopted them.

Since you are a rational individual who is part of society, you understand that fact that without uniform morals society simply can't be. The diffrence with you is that you don't need a religion to tell you that is wrong to kill, you just know its the only way we can have society, so you accept it as one of your beliefs.

[Jakeypoo]

An atheist can believe in Biblical values. Obviously not all of them, and obviously the values are not exclusive to the Bible.

You probably also believe in certain Islamic, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu and Sihkist values, but it doesn't make you any more or less part of those religions.

[Tiberius47]

An atheist can believe in biblical values because they aren't biblical. They are common sense.

[Ink]

The commandments you mentioned aren't really the "general principles that the bible teaches". Like McCulloch said the Bible is about loving 'God'. It isn't a moral guide book that is acceptable in today's era.

[Jrosemary]

I do not believe in the existence of a god.
I have read the bible several times, and the gospel many more, and I do not believe there is a metaphysical being that watches over me and created the world.

But, and there is a but, I do believe in the general principles that the bible teaches.

For example, the Ten Commandments. (referring specifically to commandments 5-10)

I think in terms of guidelines to live by, they are extremely useful.


FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'


Its true. You should live by these rules, but I think the threat of eternal damnation if one doesn't just fuels the fire for the argument of the church as a control mechanism.

Most religious texts promote similar living standards, and basic human morality does to.

So what does that make me? An atheist who values biblical morals?

What about 1-4? Isn't it a packaged deal? Doesn't keeping the Sabbath rank up there with not murdering for you?

The Ten Commandments have their origin in Judaism--they're found in the Torah, after all--and Judaism teaches that they are only intended for Jews. In that view, Tatty is quite right to ignore the mitzvah (commandment) to remember Shabbat (the Sabbath) and keep it holy. A gentile is not bound to Shabbat observance.

Judaism does teach that morality should be universal--however, it doesn't look to the Ten Commandments and the rest of the 613 mitzvot (commandments) God gave to Jews for a universal law. Instead, Judaism looks at the covenant God made with Noah (long before Sinai, according to the Torah) as representing God's moral rules for all humanity. From God's covenant with Noah, we get the seven Noahide laws:

1. Prohibition on idolatry (there is a deal of controversy, of course, on what constitutes idolatry. Most liberal Jews and even some Orthodox Jews would not classify Hinduism as idolatrous for gentiles, for example.)

2. Prohibiton of murder.

3. Prohibition of theft.

4. Prohibition of sexual immorality. (Again, there's a deal of controversy, nowadays, on what constitutes sexual immorality--liberal Judaism generally accepts gay marriage as moral and valid, for example.)

5. Prohibition on blasphemy. (According to the rabbis of old, this somehow includes honoring your father and mother.)

6. Prohibition on severing the limb from a living animal in order to eat that limb. (Presumably this was a mideastern practice once upon a time. It's now expanded to a general prohibition of cruelty to animals.)

7. A commandment to set up just courts and a just system of laws. (This includes a prohibition on false oaths and speaking lies.)

According to Judaism, these laws form the basis of universal morality. The mitzvot about Shabbat, the mitzvot about keeping kosher, etc . . . all of these are just for Jews.

Meanwhile, we have a thread going in the Judaism forum, Tatty, that might interest you. In Judaism, it's not unusual for atheists to practice the religion, and many Jews, liberal or Orthodox, see no contradiction in that. We're trying to hash out the pro's and con's of the frequent acceptance of atheism in Judaism--as for me, I see all pro's, but naturally not all Jews agree. It'll probably turn into a 'how-much-of-Judaism-is-a-culture-vs.-how-much-of-Judaism-is-a-religion' discussion, but you may find it worthwhile.

[Myth Wrecker]

I do not believe in the existence of a god.
I have read the bible several times, and the gospel many more, and I do not believe there is a metaphysical being that watches over me and created the world.

But, and there is a but, I do believe in the general principles that the bible teaches.

For example, the Ten Commandments. (referring specifically to commandments 5-10)

I think in terms of guidelines to live by, they are extremely useful.


FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'


Its true. You should live by these rules, but I think the threat of eternal damnation if one doesn't just fuels the fire for the argument of the church as a control mechanism.

Most religious texts promote similar living standards, and basic human morality does to.

So what does that make me? An atheist who values biblical morals?

Read Hinduism. Its 'principles' are much better. Expose yourselves to Eastern religions and you will see what kind of crap Christianity is.