Mythology Vs. Fact

[Coyotero]

Question for debate: Is the point of any given religion to believe in the deities and miracles, or is it to guide and teach us to become better people.

Or...

Is it the myths, or the message behind them that matters?

[Coyotero]

Budhism, like The Tebetan Book Of The Dead is phylosophy. It sometimes uses mythology as a teaching tool.

What, like every other religion ever?

Okay, this got me thinking.

I'll speak from an Asatru standpoint to begin with. Let's say the old myth of ValHalla: If you die honorably in battle, or at sea, then Odin's Valkyries will take you to ValHalla, a sort of training ground for the final battle between good and evil. That's the literal interpretation. Now, the way I see it, this story is a way of saying that you shouldn't hold back in your life. Approach whatever you will with your heart in it and no fear. Like the lone viking at Stamford bridge who held the bridge against the Saxon army to give his compatriots time to escape. Does it matter in the end if he went on to ValHalla, or is the value in the myth that he went all-out and fought without fear?

Let's take a deity, like Odin: What is more important, that he is real, or the ideas that he embodies? (Which would be endless questing for knowledge, self-sacrifice in defense of home and family, and fearlessness in the face of insurmountable doom.). If it were somehow proven irrevocably that Odin did not exist, I don't think I'd lose any sleep over it.

Let's take a more familiar example for many, Christianity. Does it really matter if Christ even existed? He teaches his disciples to live, and to lead others, by his example. To love and give unconditionally. It seems to me that many get so hung up on the ideas of Heaven and Hell that they miss the point. What if Heaven and Hell were just teaching tools? Would it change the way you live your life (Asking the christians here)

[Jayhawker Soule]

Religion deals (in part) with two interrelated concepts, God and Godliness, about which one can adopt one of two perspectives:

1. that Godliness in the manifestation of God, or
2. that God is the reification of Godliness.

If, as Buckminster Fuller once suggested, God is a verb, the difference between the two is irrelevant.

[sweetdaddy]

It is everything that Jesus was a real person. It means everything that the events of his life and death and ressurection were real. If not what have the martyrs died for? If not for the real life of Jesus and the real ressurection the the Christian faith is all in vain

[T-mash]

It is everything that Jesus was a real person. It means everything that the events of his life and death and ressurection were real. If not what have the martyrs died for? If not for the real life of Jesus and the real ressurection the the Christian faith is all in vain

Yup. Now we just need to get that message out so the martyrs stop dying

Question for debate: Is the point of any given religion to believe in the deities and miracles, or is it to guide and teach us to become better people.

Or...

Is it the myths, or the message behind them that matters?

Do you mean what it used to be or should have been? Or what it currently is? it's all about the mythology currently. If there was no god threatening with hell and/or heaven and if people weren't indoctrinated to believe in mythology that is even ridiculous to an outsider with half a brain, there wouldn't be much left of Christianity.

[Miles]

Question for debate: Is the point of any given religion to believe in the deities and miracles, or is it to guide and teach us to become better people.

Or...

Is it the myths, or the message behind them that matters?

I believe the initial impetus behind all religions is control. The priesthood, or whatever it's called, sought to control others, most likely to get others to give them stuff, like offerings of food, money, and services. They set up a mythology that appeals either to the good nature or the fear of its target membership. So, I believe this was the point of their origins. Today the various long established religions still retain the control element, although I don't think it's quite as selfish. I think most of its players, both the priesthood and the laity, truly believe in what they preach. So whatever end has been established, to avoid a Hell or simply be a better person, is pretty much their point. This isn't to say that there aren't those that still operate out of pure power/greed, but I don't think they make up a substantial percentage.

[maplethorpej]

Miles wrote:

I believe the initial impetus behind all religions is control. The priesthood, or whatever it's called, sought to control others, most likely to get others to give them stuff, like offerings of food, money, and services. They set up a mythology that appeals either to the good nature or the fear of its target membership. So, I believe this was the point of their origins. Today the various long established religions still retain the control element, although I don't think it's quite as selfish. I think most of its players, both the priesthood and the laity, truly believe in what they preach. So whatever end has been established, to avoid a Hell or simply be a better person, is pretty much their point. This isn't to say that there aren't those that still operate out of pure power/greed, but I don't think they make up a substantial percentage.

I think that this is an incredibly overlooked point. Fear and power are inseparable. It is my belief that people fall into the religions they are raised with to avoid hell more than to ascend to heaven. Logical people in the days of modern science shouldn't so easily accept these ideas of resurrection and supernatural entities. I've always asked those with faith, "What's God waiting for to save you?"

[Coyotero]

Question for debate: Is the point of any given religion to believe in the deities and miracles, or is it to guide and teach us to become better people.

Or...

Is it the myths, or the message behind them that matters?

I believe the initial impetus behind all religions is control. The priesthood, or whatever it's called, sought to control others, most likely to get others to give them stuff, like offerings of food, money, and services. They set up a mythology that appeals either to the good nature or the fear of its target membership. So, I believe this was the point of their origins. Today the various long established religions still retain the control element, although I don't think it's quite as selfish. I think most of its players, both the priesthood and the laity, truly believe in what they preach. So whatever end has been established, to avoid a Hell or simply be a better person, is pretty much their point. This isn't to say that there aren't those that still operate out of pure power/greed, but I don't think they make up a substantial percentage.

What about Hindu? Or Buddhism?

This "Join us and repent, or suffer the consequences" seems pretty much constrained to Christianity and Islam.

My personal area of knowledge is centered around paganism, to which most pagan belief systems are simply take it or leave it... Believe if you wish, but if you don't, nobody's going to punish you. It seems most eastern beliefs are similar.

Your point is valid within the sphere of christianity and, I believe (correct me if I am wrong someone) at least some forms of Islam, but from what I understand, most other belief systems are not structured as such. (Which probably accounts for the huge numbers of Christians and Muslims in the world today).

[Miles]

What about Hindu? Or Buddhism?

In Buddhism, I think the goal for most is to lead a good life. I believe this is also one of the goals of Hinduism, which includes pleasure, success, virtue, and a release from the birth-death cycle. So the goals of both religions would fall under one or both of the two "ends" I mentioned: "simply be a better person" and " avoid a Hell," which would be the recurring cycle in Hinduism.

My personal area of knowledge is centered around paganism, to which most pagan belief systems are simply take it or leave it... Believe if you wish, but if you don't, nobody's going to punish you. It seems most eastern beliefs are similar.

Buddhism at least.

[Coyotero]

What about Hindu? Or Buddhism?

In Buddhism, I think the goal for most is to lead a good life. I believe this is also one of the goals of Hinduism, which includes pleasure, success, virtue, and a release from the birth-death cycle. So the goals of both religions would fall under one or both of the two "ends" I mentioned: "simply be a better person" and " avoid a Hell," which would be the recurring cycle in Hinduism.

My personal area of knowledge is centered around paganism, to which most pagan belief systems are simply take it or leave it... Believe if you wish, but if you don't, nobody's going to punish you. It seems most eastern beliefs are similar.

Buddhism at least.

My contention is that it doesn't seem that anyone in said religions is bent on bringing others into the fold. Basically, these religions are not power-structured like, say, Catholicism is.